Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
ModelsRailroadsRockets
Radio Controlled
Air ModelsHelicoptersLand ModelsWater Models
ModelGeeks.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Model Forum / General / Rockets / February 2007



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Temperature Change As Nitrous Oxide Exits Vessel

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
runswithknives@gmail.com - 22 Feb 2007 00:50 GMT
I'm looking for an equation as to how the temperature varies as
nitrous oxide leaves the pressure vessel. We are designing a hybrid
rocket for a class and we're getting hung up on this issue. I have
tables as to how the properties of nitrous oxide change as it leaves
the vessel, but I need to figure out the temperature change as the N20
flows out. What is known is the mass flow rate of the N20. We can set
the initial pressure and size of the vessel. Thanks.
Jim Yanik - 22 Feb 2007 02:48 GMT
> I'm looking for an equation as to how the temperature varies as
> nitrous oxide leaves the pressure vessel. We are designing a hybrid
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> flows out. What is known is the mass flow rate of the N20. We can set
> the initial pressure and size of the vessel. Thanks.

consider that the N20 is expanding into a HOT,pressurized combustion
chamber.(and has to be over ~500degF to release its O2)

Why is the N20 temp relevant?

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Nuke Rocketeer - 22 Feb 2007 13:28 GMT
On Feb 21, 6:50 pm, runswithkni...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm looking for an equation as to how the temperature varies as
> nitrous oxide leaves the pressure vessel. We are designing a hybrid
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> flows out. What is known is the mass flow rate of the N20. We can set
> the initial pressure and size of the vessel. Thanks.

Using the ideal gas relationships and conservation of energy,

p1V1/T1 = p2V2/T2, where p is absolute pressure, V is volume, and T is
the absolute temperature.
John Wickman - 22 Feb 2007 16:14 GMT
On Feb 21, 5:50 pm, runswithkni...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm looking for an equation as to how the temperature varies as
> nitrous oxide leaves the pressure vessel. We are designing a hybrid
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> flows out. What is known is the mass flow rate of the N20. We can set
> the initial pressure and size of the vessel. Thanks.

Essentially, you have a cold gas thruster situation.  As the gas goes
out of the tank, the gas temperature in the tank will drop.  There is
a good discussion along with equations in the book, "Space Propulsion
Analysis and Design", Humble, Henry and Larson.  My edition is from
1995 and on page 145 it gives you the information.   In your case, the
internal energy of the gas in the tank is dropping since it is used to
propel gas out the valve.

Equations in a nut shell:

Gas internal energy drop = U-dot = -(mdot)(cp)(Tgas)

mdot = mass flowrate of gas out tank
cp = specific heat of gas
Tgas = temperature of gas in tank

Internal energy of gas in tank = U = (mgas)(cp)(Tgas)

mgas = mass of gas in tank

Solve for initial U knowing mgas, cp and Tgas.  You could use the
perfect gas law to get mgas at initial conditions.

Then solve for U-dot over a time increment say delta-t.  Calculate
mdot from:

mdot = (Ahole)(Ptank)/(C*)

Ahole = tank outlet hole area
Ptank = tank pressure
C* = in terms of gamma, Tgas, gas constant (too long to write here and
I'm too lazy)

I would set Ptank to the value for the last time increment.  For the
first time step that would be the initial pressure.

U at the new time increment is Unew = Uold - (Udot)(delta-t)
mgas at the new time increment is Mnew = Mold - (mdot)(delta-t)

Now, use U equation to solve to the gas temperature at the new time
increment:

Tgas = U/[(mgas)(cp)]

Determine the gas density in the tank: gasdensity = mgas/(tank volume)

New tank pressure is: Ptank = (gasdensity)(gas constant R)(Tgas)
Note: Watch your units

Just keep doing this in a loop to get gas temperature and other
parameters as a function of time.  Check out the book for a better
discussion.

John Wickman
Kurt - 22 Feb 2007 16:45 GMT
Finally!!!!!

A situation where the Ahole is extremely important. :-)

> On Feb 21, 5:50 pm, runswithkni...@gmail.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> John Wickman
John Wickman - 22 Feb 2007 23:19 GMT
> Finally!!!!!
>
> A situation where the Ahole is extremely important. :-)

That is a warm gas system you are referring to.  In that case, use
properties for methane. :-)

John Wickman
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.