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Model Forum / General / Rockets / September 2008Series 2 Engines
During the 60s, Estes had a "series 2" type of motor listed as a B-3-0, B-3-5, and B-3-7. Later designations were B-14-0, B-14-5. B-14-7. These motors has a core running through them and produced a "sledgehammer thrust" of about 9 lbs. Why and when did thesemotors stop being produced? > During the 60s, Estes had a "series 2" type of motor listed as a > B-3-0, B-3-5, and B-3-7. Later designations were B-14-0, B-14-5. > B-14-7. These motors has a core running through them and produced a > "sledgehammer thrust" of about 9 lbs. Why and when did thesemotors > stop being produced? B14 was the metric designation for the B3 (14 newtons ~= 3 pounds). This motor had a drilled core. The core was formed using the same pintle as the C6, as I understand it. Then it was drilled to the deeper, larger size. There was significant risk in the drilling and it apparently caused problems on more than one occasion. (Hot drill bits, power tools and black powder can make for some interesting situations :) The later C5 and B8 motors had deep cores formed using a long pintle, with the B8 replacing the B14 in the lineup circa 1981. Ultimately, the last B8 variant (B8-5) was discontinued around 1996. The C5-3 was discontinued around 2001. It is speculation, but these later motors are believed to have been less reliable due to the deeper cores, and that this was a factor in them being discontinued. HTH. Doug . >B14 was the metric designation for the B3 (14 newtons ~= 3 pounds). >This motor had a drilled core. The core was formed using the same [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >bits, power tools and black powder can make for some interesting >situations :) Hello Doug, Hmmm... I've heard this story before but it doesn't fit my recollection. I wasn't able to afford much in the way of rocket motors way-back-when, so when the 9th grade rocket club got some B14s and some C6s, I took a close look. The B14 nozzle had a visibly larger throat than the C6 and B6 motors, and I recall seeing the bottom of the small-diameter that had been formed (or drilled, dunno which). The B14s were purchased as first and second stage motors for a 4-stage rocket. Unfortunately someone (not me!) had more enthusiasm than engineering ability. The 4-stage made a very pretty skywriting pattern... Best -- Terry > >B14 was the metric designation for the B3 (14 newtons ~= 3 pounds). > >This motor had a drilled core. The core was formed using the same > >pintle as the C6, as I understand it. Then it was drilled to the > >deeper, larger size. > Hmmm... I've heard this story before but it doesn't fit my > recollection. I wasn't able to afford much in the way of rocket [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bottom of the small-diameter that had been formed (or drilled, dunno > which). Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I was trying to say that it was initially formed (rammed) using a pintle from one of the other motors (eg B6 or C6), then it was drilled to the larger, deeper core of the B14. BTW, here's a pic I took comparing the B14 and the B8. http://home.flash.net/~samily/motors/B14-vs-B8-3.jpg The B14 nozzle is quite large on the left. The next one appears a bit smaller, but that may simply be due to the effect of the nozzle color and lighting. The third one is definitely smaller, but still as deep (0.75"). It looks about as wide as the B8 (far right), but is indeed deeper by 0.15". HTH. Doug . > > >B14 was the metric designation for the B3 (14 newtons ~= 3 pounds). > > >This motor had a drilled core. The core was formed using the same [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > . I am almost 100% positive that there were Centuri (made in Phoenix, not Penrose) B14 motors that had a large smoothly tapered centerbore which was different than the Estes stepped centerbore. The Centuri centerbore looked like a B8 or C5 centerbore only larger/deeper. The Estes motors looked just like their cutaway diagrams. Let's see if I can find one... http://www.esteseducator.com/Pdf_files/1976clas.pdf see sheets 34 and 35 for B6/B8 comparison (pages 32 and 33). There you go: http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes711/711est84.html > I am almost 100% positive that there were Centuri (made in Phoenix, > not Penrose) B14 motors that had a large smoothly tapered centerbore [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > There you go: > http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes711/711est84.html Looking into the nozzle of a vintage, unfired Centauri B14-0 (date code 8J10), I see a stepped nozzle. I also see an irregular "smear" of clay around the bore which makes me think the core was formed on a pintle rather than drilled as I have always heard. I don't have a boresight handy but I may be able to rig up a "grain-of-wheat" bulb and power supply and take a peek later.  Signaturesm@ug dot ichorfang at gmail dot com > > I am almost 100% positive that there were Centuri (made in Phoenix, > > not Penrose) B14 motors that had a large smoothly tapered centerbore [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > sm@ug dot ichorfang > at gmail dot com The main nozz-hole and lower portion of the bore were probably formed during loading, but the small diameter top (the "step") were drilled after loading. And I definitely saw 2 types of Centuri B14 motors: stepped and unstepped. Unless I have false memories.... > The main nozz-hole and lower portion of the bore were probably formed > during loading, but the small diameter top (the "step") were drilled > after loading. > > And I definitely saw 2 types of Centuri B14 motors: stepped and > unstepped. Unless I have false memories.... Taking a closer look with a good light, I am convinced that this particular motor was pressed. I can see scratches that go from the BP core along the inside of the nozzle. These could have only been made on a pintle; drilling would have removed the scratches. Signaturesm@ug dot ichorfang at gmail dot com > During the 60s, Estes had a "series 2" type of motor listed as a > B-3-0, B-3-5, and B-3-7. Later designations were B-14-0, B-14-5. > B-14-7. These motors has a core running through them and produced a > "sledgehammer thrust" of about 9 lbs. Why and when did thesemotors > stop being produced? The B3-X motors were originally developed in the spring/summer of 1961 and were demoed at NARAM-3 in August 1961 as B16. The B16 lasted for approx. 2-3 years before becoming B3. .They were redesignated as B14 in 1968 in the english to metric change that took place. The B14 lasted at Estes thru 1979 and Centuri thru 1981. The B14 was replaced with a lower peak thrust B8 in 1980 and lasted till 1998. Most of the above information is taken from Doug Sams fine Centuri- Estes Motor Lineage Chart Its my understanding that they were discontinued due to the manufacturing danger of drilling the core, at least for the B16/B3/ B14, as the B8 used a formed core. hth terry dean >> During the 60s, Estes had a "series 2" type of motor listed as a >> B-3-0, B-3-5, and B-3-7. Later designations were B-14-0, B-14-5. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >terry dean If I have my way, they may rise again > If I have my way, they may rise again When you're ready, you just tell us where to send the checks, and we'll gladly purchase them :) Doug terry dean wrote: > Its my understanding that they were discontinued due to the > manufacturing danger of drilling the core, at least for the B16/B3/ > B14, as the B8 used a formed core. Joe replied: >> If I have my way, they may rise again Joe, I can guarantee you at least one customer. I'm guessing there are more :-) SignatureGordon S. Hlavenka Join the Revolution at http://www.ronpaul.com My concept revolves around a BP motor the size of an Estes D-12. >If I have my way, they may rise again > My concept revolves around a BP motor the size of an Estes D-12. > > >If I have my way, they may rise again- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Yes, it could become known as the "C11". ;) Joe schreef: > If I have my way, they may rise again The B14 was a cool engine. One of my favorites. I can clearly remember launching my Estes Trident on a B14-7. The delay was about 3 seconds longer than it should have been. It ejected just fine and landed safely, 27 years ago. It just popped up as soon as I read your post. When you're ready there is at least one customer waiting in Holland :) Roland |
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