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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / August 2004



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Should I  ???

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reg - 26 Aug 2004 20:51 GMT
Well I weighed it up. Pondered the pros and cons. Debated with myself
the wisdom of doing it as opposed to not doing it. Weighed the extra
balsa required. Contemplated the ethics of it. Looked at the
authenticity issues and......

Oh hell I just had to do it ! Building the wings for my Ben Buckle kit
and I just could not bring myself to do it without converting them from
being just top sheeted to a full D box section. For an extra 1/2 oz of
balsa sheeting I thought it was worthwhile. To heck with authenticity
lets go for better strength and stiffness I thought. Having had great
success with D box wings I just couldn't bear going with only top
sheeting from leading edge to main spar and the probability of more twist.
I guess I am a lost cause as regards following original designs  >:-)

I must admit to being tempted to lay aside the wings and dig out the
wood for an ark though.... never seen weather like as 'ow as wot we have
had this year. The only saving grace is... slope flying implies very
good drainage in the areas where it is practised... not much water
lingers on the steep slope of a hillside    >:-)

Reg
Nick Lambert - 27 Aug 2004 10:31 GMT
Hiya Reg,

>Oh hell I just had to do it ! Building the wings for my Ben Buckle kit
>and I just could not bring myself to do it without converting them from
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>sheeting from leading edge to main spar and the probability of more twist.
>I guess I am a lost cause as regards following original designs  >:-)

I'm currenctly building a Hog Bipe (we'll about to start again as
nights are drawing in) and have done the fus and the top of the top
wing. I'm about to start doing the underside. This, according to the
instructions  is what gives the wing it's anti-twist. So if you want a
stronger wing go for it. Doing the top was easy because I could glue
with ca from the underside. Not sure yet how I'm going to fix the
bottom, may be a mix of white glue and pin it back and front with
ca. How will  you do yours?

>I must admit to being tempted to lay aside the wings and dig out the
>wood for an ark though.... never seen weather like as 'ow as wot we have
>had this year. The only saving grace is... slope flying implies very
>good drainage in the areas where it is practised... not much water
>lingers on the steep slope of a hillside    >:-)

Yep know what you mean about the wet. Might have to fit floats if it
keeps on.  The grass is so heavey and wet getting airbourne is a
real challenge!

Mind you don't slip on those wet slopes.

Nick
reg - 27 Aug 2004 20:51 GMT
> Hiya Reg,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> bottom, may be a mix of white glue and pin it back and front with
> ca. How will  you do yours?

On the D box section wings I have built previously I have used aliphatic
glue (or PVA wood glue on occasions) and spot tacked with cyano.
I have used this method for both skins of the D box. Just run a thin
bead of aliphatic or PVA along the edges of ribs spars,etc. and use
a few spots of cyano to hold it in place until the glue dries, then you
can do the other skin.

If the balsa sheeting is not in good contact with the curved shape of
the wing ribs then you may have to weight it down overnight. I use
either... plastic sandwich bags loaded with sand or lead weights.
Don't go mad and distort it.. just use enough to press it into contact
with the underlying rib.

Make sure the wing is flat and not twisted before applying the second
part of the balsa sheeting... if it is not straight and twist free
before you complete the D box then it is going to stay out of shape once
the glue has set and the wing becomes rigid.... this is not good !!!

I also cover the D box section with 0.6 oz glass cloth and PVA glue.
When that has dried I usually give it a couple of coats of water based
varnish. This technique has been used on wings of 60" and 100".
I decided to use this covering technique after the balsa sheeting on a
100" wing developed cracks due to twisting forces it was subjected to
after I lost orientation of the model at long range.
For a small increase in weight it gives a big increase in abuse
resistance     >:-)

> Yep know what you mean about the wet. Might have to fit floats if it
> keeps on.  The grass is so heavey and wet getting airbourne is a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Nick

Managed to go slope flying again today... 2nd time this week, it is dry
underfoot up there due to the wonderful drainage and the heather is in
flower and looking rather grand   >:-)

 Reg
Nick Lambert - 31 Aug 2004 10:33 GMT
>> Hiya Reg,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>For a small increase in weight it gives a big increase in abuse
>resistance     >:-)

Thanks for the tips Reg, very usefull.

>> Yep know what you mean about the wet. Might have to fit floats if it
>> keeps on.  The grass is so heavey and wet getting airbourne is a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>underfoot up there due to the wonderful drainage and the heather is in
>flower and looking rather grand   >:-)

I went out Sunday morning. It was brilliant flying weather for a
change. The air was nice and crisp, that allowed my plane to really
bite. A nice patch of blue sky now and then to do aerobatics in. The
wind was up but steady not gusty, so had to make cross wind landings
each time, which was great fun and best of all no full size guys
flying so we had the Defford runway all to ourselves. Shame it came on
to rain at 1.40 PM but no too bad as we have to finish power flying at
2.00 PM on Sundays anyway.

Nick
Ivan Bradbury - 27 Aug 2004 13:20 GMT
Howdy Reg,

I’m relatively new to this forum game  but I’ve read one or two of your
postings over the last few weeks and I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re
a man after my own heart. – I could be wrong mind you!  Flown most types of
models but if forced to choose just one, the fan at the front would have to
go and we’d settle for the slopes. Right?

Now my two pen’orth about whether to full ‘D’ or not to full ‘D’ - - Most of
Ben Buckle’s models go back to the pre-radio days or at least to when single
channel was King.  (rudder only - operated by an escarpment) – These models
had, for all intense and purposes, only one flying speed.

When multi-channel came on the scene and we had the luxury of rudder and
elevator, wings started to ‘Clap Hands’.  This was overcome by substituting
that flimsy top main-spar for a top and bottom spar with a connecting balsa
web. – Then another phenomena raised its head  ‘The Tuck Under’  It was
found that when some models got a fair head of speed, as in a shallow dive,
the dive would start to steepen up and the elevator would not be powerful
enough to pull the model out of the dive. It took a while for some of us to
realise that this was caused by the wings twisting at the tips – In came the
‘Full D’box section

So Reg, my advice for what’s it worth when building one of these open
structured wings, is, - go for the full D section – plus a touch of carbon;
resin; foam and anything else you can get away with –

There is of course two alternatives if you want to stick to with the
original design::

1) Don’t plug the elevator servo because I know you can’t resist those
high-speed low passes. -  2) Buy a bike and have a bash at free flying – a
lot cheaper on radio gear  but it plays hell with the lungs .

Good Luck with it –

Ivan

.....

> Oh hell I just had to do it ! Building the wings for my Ben Buckle kit
> and I just could not bring myself to do it without converting them from
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> sheeting from leading edge to main spar and the probability of more twist.
> I guess I am a lost cause as regards following original designs  >:-)

Reg
reg - 27 Aug 2004 20:51 GMT
> Howdy Reg,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> models but if forced to choose just one, the fan at the front would have to
> go and we’d settle for the slopes. Right?

Dead right... I love flying for ages at a time just teasing out lift and
combating sink. My longest flight was 1 hour 20 mins but I usually get
boggle eyed before that long. I could see bad weather coming in from the
sea on that occasion and decided to fly as long as possible. Just got
back down and set off in the car when the heavens opened... I love it
when I get it right   >:-)
I was specked out the other day when a full size glider appeared above
me, he was quite high and looked sort of grey and somewhat ghostly it
was quite good going along in the same direction but at different
heights. A short while later another full size glider, vintage type,
came along the hillside using the same slope lift as me.,, it adds a
touch of interest to the proceedings.

> Now my two pen’orth about whether to full ‘D’ or not to full ‘D’ - - Most of
> Ben Buckle’s models go back to the pre-radio days or at least to when single
> channel was King.  (rudder only - operated by an escarpment) – These models
> had, for all intense and purposes, only one flying speed.

> So Reg, my advice for what’s it worth when building one of these open
> structured wings, is, - go for the full D section – plus a touch of carbon;
> resin; foam and anything else you can get away with –

Thanks for the comments, I haven't been involved with model planes for
long so your comments about the original designs are appreciated.
I looked at the blueprint and couldn't make my mind up. Once I had the
part built wing in my hand though I decided I would use a full D box
section. I just couldn't bring myself to use the wing as it was. I am
not entering any competitions with it, it is only for my own use so I
decided to go with a more modern approach. After seeing your comments I
am glad I did go for the D box. It will at least look vintage even
though the wing is less liable to twist or fold   >:-)

> There is of course two alternatives if you want to stick to with the
> original design::
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>  Ivan

Thanks for the very usefull comments Ivan, I may put a small diesel on
it when I have finished it...alternatively I might try it on the slope on
light wind days....will see how it turns out.

 Reg
 
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