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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / September 2004Zenoah plumbing
Thanks to all for throttle advice, now to the plumbing. As a petrol first timer would just like to ask a few questions on petrol tanks and piping. The tank which came with the Zenoah 45 has 3 fittings with it, one being the centre fuel feed/clunk. One is obviously a fill and like 2/4 stokes I assume will enter into the top of the tank somewhere. Pipe three which would normally be pressure feed from silencer on 2/4 stroke, where does this one go to? Also, the fittings do not have seals etc, just a spigot, washer and nut. What is the best way to get a seal? Will be packing the tank in foam as a matter of course but wondered how important this is with petrol engines? Thought about using a re-fuelling valve, do these have to be especially for petrol? Is the siting of the receiver critical on an engine with an ignition source? Any other tips prior to cranking up much appreciated. Thanks for your time. Regards, Griff. > Thanks to all for throttle advice, now to the plumbing. > As a petrol first timer would just like to ask a few questions on petrol [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Griff. One's for petrol/gas (the one attached to the clunk) The two others are for filling and vent. Do not under any circumstance feed pressure form the exhaust into the tank. It will explode and burn. The only thing to be aware of is that you do not use silicon anywhere, sealings, re-fuelling valves or tubing. Silicon is dissolved by petrol/gas and will ruin the carb. If you use a clunk with a cotton felt filter, no air will come through it so foaming in the tank doesn't matter. Try to keep the rx and everything else connected to it as far from the engine as possible. Welcome to the wonderful world of gas engines.  SignatureKjell Aanvik Oslo, Norway >Thanks to all for throttle advice, now to the plumbing. One line (the clunk) goes to the carb. The second line is the filler line, which can be left open (at the top of the fuselage). The third line can be a separate vent line, if you don't use the filler line as one. Gasoline engines have pumper carbs and do not need any type of pressure. DO NOT use silicone. Use fuel line, gas tank stoppers, and hardware labeled for gasoline. Petrol-based fuels will quickly dissolve silicone. Gas engines usually don't vibrate as much and foaming is not a problem. Use a little foam rubber around the tank. Most FM/PCM narrow band RXs are every resistant to interference from the engine. Use a resistor plug, and keep electric leads and the antenna away from the coil and spark plug wire. Gas engines like to start VERY "wet". Prime the engine until gas is dripping out of the carb throat. PLEASE use a recoil spring starter, an electric starter, or a chicken stick. DO NOT stick your fingers into that big 22" meat cleaver! Let the engine warm up before running it at full throttle. Gas engines may take longer to break in than glow engines do, but most can be broken in while flying. Be patient. Good luck, and keep on asking questions! Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > Gas engines like to start VERY "wet". Prime the engine until gas is dripping > out of the carb throat. Woah there... some Petrols may like to be wet, but many don't and will refuse to start... I wouldn't say the Zenoah likes to be wet.... > PLEASE use a recoil spring starter, an electric > starter, or a chicken stick. DO NOT stick your fingers into that big 22" meat > cleaver! He'll never start a Zenoah with a chicken stick... A padded leather glove is the best way to go in my opinion. Never been bitten by my 45 yet, or come to think of it the 23s or 26s either. >Let the engine warm up before running it at full throttle. Gas > engines may take longer to break in than glow engines do, but most can be > broken in while flying. Be patient. -- Philip Rawson www.flymodels.co.uk www.aeromodeller.org Did you get the stuff off Glen? Chuck the tank and get a Dubro, a petrol bung and felt clunk. Use Tygon tubing, run from the clunk to the the carb, leave the other two as vents/fillers. Forget the refuelling valve... Stick anything connected to your radio gear 8-10" away from your engine. Buy a thickly padded leather glove and get someone who really knows how to hand start a Zenoah to show you how. If they start slapping the prop find someone else... They are easy to start, even without an easystart, but you need to know the correct technique or you may never get the thing started by hand. -- Philip Rawson www.flymodels.co.uk www.aeromodeller.org > Thanks to all for throttle advice, now to the plumbing. > As a petrol first timer would just like to ask a few questions on petrol [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Griff. > Buy a thickly padded leather glove and get someone who really knows how to > hand start a Zenoah to show you how. If they start slapping the prop find > someone else... They are easy to start, even without an easystart, but you > need to know the correct technique or you may never get the thing started > by > hand. For the benefit of those other petrol newbees out here, would you care to try and describe the correct technique for starting. I have operated a Quadra 52 for some time but this has the recoil spring system which makes starting quite simple. I have just bought a Zenoah 62 but this one is strictly hand cranked. As yet I haven't tried to start it although I have gone so far as to buy a really thick pair of welders gauntlets! regards, Stu K >For the benefit of those other petrol newbees out here, would you care to >try and describe the correct technique for starting. Stu, If it were me, I'd get the recoil starter for the G-62, too. I used a recoil starter on my G-38, and I start my G-23 with an electric Hobbico brand. The G-38 fired up in 3-4 cranks every time, and it seldom takes more than 2-5 second bursts on the starter to crank the G-23. I wouldn't stick my hand in a prop that large even if I were wearing chain mail. Gassers like to start very wet. With the kill switch "OFF", choke it until gas is dripping out the carb throat. With the kill switch "ON", flip it HARD through compression, starting about 90 degrees before TDC. Good luck. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" Thanks DR1 Driver. I have always liked the recoil start gadget, cheap simple and effective. I didn't know that they could be bought for the zenoah range, can't recall seeing anyone using one on this side of the pond, |Are they available in the UK???? thanks Stu K > >For the benefit of those other petrol newbees out here, would you care to >>try and describe the correct technique for starting. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" >|Are they available in the UK???? I don't know, but they should be available through Horizon or Tower. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > Thanks DR1 Driver. > I have always liked the recoil start gadget, cheap simple and effective. I > didn't know that they could be bought for the zenoah range, can't recall > seeing anyone using one on this side of the pond, If you're desperate not to start your engine by hand, you might consider a pull start pulley in front of the prop. Take two Zenoah chamfered prop washers, face together to make a pulley. A bit of strong cord with a handle on the end wrapped round... give it a pull... I used to start my old McCulloch this way... works a treat and adds very little weight. And no, the string won't get wrapped in the prop, but yes there is a chance of the prop taking the skin off your knuckles... but only once! -- Philip Rawson www.flymodels.co.uk www.aeromodeller.org > For the benefit of those other petrol newbees out here, would you care to > try and describe the correct technique for starting. OK, this is how I do it... works for Z 23, 26, 45 and 62... First put your prop on correctly... With the engine coming up to compression, the prop should be at about 11 o'clock. TDC should be a bit past this. Close the throttle to tickover. Close the choke. Start flipping the engine (wear a padded glove. Mine are padded on the backs of the fingers as well as the front). Flip from about 2 - 3 o'clock right the way round to 8 o'clock. Do it smartly and like you mean it... no namby pamby limp wrists please... When the engine coughs, give it one more flip, the open the choke. You may need more than one flip after the engine coughs, but you'll get to know your engine the more you use it. Flip as before until the engine starts, normally 3 or 4 flips. Note that I haven't mentioned slapping or batting the prop... it's not the way to go. Flipping the prop right the way from 3 o'clock to 8 o'clock takes a bit of getting used to, especially if you're used to starting a glow engine. As I've said; flip the prop like you mean it... get a bit of power into the flip... and do it like you expect it not to bite you and it won't... I used to know a chap who used to start his Z62 with what looked like a cosh... a tightly rolled cylinder of heavy cloth, wrapped in tape. He used to prime his engine, stand in front of it and whack the prop with the cosh... The engine used to start, but it was hard on his props and the airframe... When he saw me start his engine with my method, he couldn't believe it... What no violence??? -- Philip Rawson www.flymodels.co.uk www.aeromodeller.org And the reason for flipping the prop around from about 2-3 o'clock right the way round to 8 o'clock, is that you do need to get the magnets in the flywheel to pass underneath the coil in order to generate enough electricity for a proper ignition spark. If you start flipping from the point when the compression starts, and then just flip it over the top, you will not get a spark. Philip Rawson's description of the starting procedure is in my view, the only way to start a zenoah engine, and it works! No violence please, just be sure you've primed the engine good and wet, and then a good swing on the prop. Also, wet gas/petrol engines don't backfire. A rich mixture in the cylinder burns much slower than a lean mixture, and you will have time to get the piston over the top before it starts to push. Kjell Aanvik Oslo > > For the benefit of those other petrol newbees out here, would you care to > > try and describe the correct technique for starting. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > www.flymodels.co.uk > www.aeromodeller.org >Also, wet gas/petrol engines don't backfire. >A rich mixture in the cylinder burns much slower than a lean mixture, Good point, Kjell. The real trick is getting the prop in the right position and pulling it through the "spark point" with enough OOMPH to generate the electricity. Personally, I'd rather use a recoil or electric starter. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" > >Also, wet gas/petrol engines don't backfire. > >A rich mixture in the cylinder burns much slower than a lean mixture, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dr.1 Driver > "There's a Hun in the sun!" That is also the reason for not continuing flipping the prop if it doesn't fire up right away. You'll gradually get it leaner for each time you swing the prop, and when it fires up with a lean mixture it'll backfire and bite your fingers. If the engine doesn't start after 5-8 flips, prime it again. recoil starters will bite your fingers very hard if it slips before you're ready :)) Also it seems to be very brutal with the poor little thing. (the engine) Kjell Aanvik >recoil starters will bite your fingers very hard if it slips before you're >ready :)) >Also it seems to be very brutal with the poor little thing. (the engine) I used a leather work glove and a tight grip when I had mine. In 4 years it never bit me once. I don't think it's brutal at all. It swings the prop through compression about twice, and starts quickly and reliably. Lots better than doing what some do; slapping at the prop with a stick. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!" I can only echo everything that Philip Rawson has said. By following his instructions, my big Z62 has never 'bitten' me, well they dont just bite, they could take a finger off ! ! If you bought your motor from Glen, there should have been very comprehensive instructions on setting up, throttle linkages, plumbing, starting & operating your motor, follow these to the letter & you wont go wrong. Ray > Thanks to all for throttle advice, now to the plumbing. > As a petrol first timer would just like to ask a few questions on petrol [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Griff. with all due respect ray, fat paul started your engine he's 30 stone + your zenoah bit him he nearly cried it was that bad he had bruised bone for about 9 months and Glen will tell you what you want to hear >I can only echo everything that Philip Rawson has said. By following his > instructions, my big Z62 has never 'bitten' me, well they dont just bite, > they could take a finger off ! ! If you bought your motor from Glen, there > should have been very comprehensive instructions on setting up, throttle > linkages, plumbing, starting & operating your motor, follow these to the > letter & you wont go wrong. Ray |
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