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Model Forum / Radio Controlled / Air Models / June 2006What do you reckon ...
... LiPo battery? http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550  SignatureDave (Sgt. Pepper) Epsom, England Nikon D2X / D2Hs / D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700 My photo galleries at http://www.pbase.com/davecq "I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!" > ... LiPo battery? > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550 Nah couldn't be as we're often told be certain people here LiPo's are harmless... Greg > Nah couldn't be as we're often told be certain people here LiPo's are > harmless... > > Greg Not if they fall onto yer bleedin head from the bedroom window they aren't!! D >> ... LiPo battery? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Greg The more I read about LiPo's. and there's been a lot of articles lately, the less inclined I am to want to own one... let alone use it. There appears to be so many potential (oops) problems with them that they start making rubber power look very attractive. It seems you only have to look at them the wrong way when charging/discharging and they go toes up... don't even think of dropping them ! Then there's the unknown, but possibly short, lifespan when used at high levels of discharge. Then there's the price. If the cells go unbalanced..... run. They are WAY too fragile and temperamental... you would be better off with a wife... less hassle ! Reg > The more I read about LiPo's. and there's been a lot of articles lately, > the less inclined I am to want to own one... let alone use it. Actually I own three very small packs for park fliers but that's my limit, the big stuff that others proudly boast about at the field is not at all attractive to me. > They are WAY too fragile and temperamental... you would be better off > with a wife... less hassle ! Now I wouldn't know, when I hear either of the dreaded words commitment or marriage they're history 8-) Greg >> The more I read about LiPo's. and there's been a lot of articles lately, >> the less inclined I am to want to own one... let alone use it. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Greg my machine came with a proper charger designed for that battery. It charges at a fixed rate and switches itself off when finished. The nimh charger and batt that came with the walkera didn't have the saftey light come on it didn't switch off after two hours and it got extremely hot, almost too hot to touch. My twister lipo batteries have been dropped from hand height onto concrete. There is also a balancer to ensure correct charging. I've also crashed landed several times with no leakage, bulging or burning. Do not charge li po with nicad or nimh charger. a specially designed charger is required. auto switch off is best. do not fast charge. 1 hour charging is the quickest. Considering how small and light they are for the charge they carry i'm not surprised they have to be handled with care. >>> ... LiPo battery? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >The more I read about LiPo's. and there's been a lot of articles lately, >the less inclined I am to want to own one... let alone use it. So you don't own a mobile phone or laptop then? >There appears to be so many potential (oops) problems with them that >they start making rubber power look very attractive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >at high levels of discharge. Then there's the price. If the cells go >unbalanced..... run. I had the same opinion, read all the scaremonger articles etc. etc. Then guys started turning up at the field actually using them and guess what? no problems. I was so impressed I bought a small lipo and controller and replaced my 7cell nicad brushed/gearbox speed400 with a small brushless outrunner for my WLM Highlight glider.. With the low weight and small size they will transform any electric powered glider - stick a brushless up the front and you'll never want to go back to nicad/nimh (unless you want the extra weight for ballast/penetration). My advice (fwiw) find someone local who uses them , then make your decision. Don't listen to the scare stories, especially those being repeated from people who have only read about them and never used them. >They are WAY too fragile and temperamental... you would be better off >with a wife... less hassle ! > >Reg nah! much more expensive (and a LiPo doesn't insist you decorate or do the garden instead of going flying) rgds Bob > So you don't own a mobile phone or laptop then? Er, this thread started with pictures of a lap top that burst into flames like an incendiary device... As to mobiles, yes, mine has a LiPo but it's about 1% of the size of those being flown by club mates, is protected by a hard shell instead of just a few microns of plastic film, has no exposed terminals for you to short and is charged by a charger that's dedicated to the particular pack and monitors it's temperature. Oh and it's not hurled around the skies at 50Mph 8-). As to them transforming models, well if you just go brushless as I have then the performance of your models will be suitably transformed without the need to go LiPo as well. Of course LiPos will increase the duration, but frankly I've had enough after 10 minutes of hurling my Picojet Combat around at ballistic speeds with a Kontronix motor and Sanyo NiCads 8-). As someone else said, it's only a matter of time before there is a disaster caused by a lap top exploding in an aircraft, unfortunately the aviation industry is notoriously slow to respond to increased dangers if it costs them in some way, many people have to die to kick them out of their compacency. Greg >> So you don't own a mobile phone or laptop then? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I've had enough after 10 minutes of hurling my Picojet Combat around at > ballistic speeds with a Kontronix motor and Sanyo NiCads 8-). Actually if you do the sums, the LIPOS transform the model MORE, at LESS cost, than stuffing in a brushless motor. I've got skads of LIPOS and only three brushless motors. Going brushless addss about 20% to inflight time, for a given power, and saves at best about 15% powertrain weight. Going LIPO saves about 40% powertrain weight, and tends to increase flight times by 4-6 times. Both is best, but with a decent brushless and ESC up around £80 for medium sized models, but packs around £35, I know which I will continue to upgrade first. > Actually if you do the sums, the LIPOS transform the model MORE, at LESS > cost, than stuffing in a brushless motor. Maybe in your circumstances but not in mine, I have typically three packs per model so replacing them would be more expensive than a motor and controller. Add the fact that I've got hundreds invested in packs with plenty of life left in them, and only a fraction of that invested in can motors, and it's a no brainer. Also a properly chosen brushless gives you a lot more thrust which transforms a lethargic model, something I value far more than duration. Changing to LiPo with the same can motor will not give any more thrust, assuming the motor is already being used optimally, though or course may reduce weight and hence improve performance, I prefer the less subtle approach of having more horses on tap 8-).. > Both is best, but with a decent brushless and ESC up around £80 for > medium sized models, but packs around £35, I know which I will continue > to upgrade first. Yes your figures confirm my findings, three packs at £105 against motor and controller at £80, even with only two packs there's little in it. Also throwing away NiCad's worth say 3x£25 = £75 against a can motor worth £10-£15. Greg On the subject of brushless though, what brands have people had good experience with?, there are now so many obscure brands appearing that it's hard to see the wood for the trees!, Als alone lists 7 brands and SMC another 5. I've been very happy with Kontronik but they seem to have priced themselves out of what's become a very competitive market. I'm after 400 and 600 replacements, not park fly or IC engine replacements. Greg > On the subject of brushless though, what brands have people had good > experience with?, there are now so many obscure brands appearing that it's > hard to see the wood for the trees!, Als alone lists 7 brands and SMC > another 5. I've been very happy with Kontronik but they seem to have priced > themselves out of what's become a very competitive market. I'm after 400 and > 600 replacements, not park fly or IC engine replacements. DD 400 the best is probably the mega AC 16/15 range Or Hackers if you can afford em. All the AXIS are pretty good, and so are the MPjet outrunners - their inrunners are not so good - hackers better. Depends really..the price generally reflects efficiency and hence power to weight - those £9.99 bell outrunners are little better than a geared can 400 efficiency wise. > Greg >> Both is best, but with a decent brushless and ESC up around £80 for >> medium sized models, but packs around £35, I know which I will continue [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > throwing away NiCad's worth say 3x£25 = £75 against a can motor worth > £10-£15. Ah. I tend to have one pack per three models, or so No need for three packs when you can fly for 45 minutes on one. Three models selected out of the hangar and three packs is at least two hours flying time, If I take a charger and recharge pack 1 while flying packs 2 and 3.. > Greg >>The more I read about LiPo's. and there's been a lot of articles lately, >>the less inclined I am to want to own one... let alone use it. > > So you don't own a mobile phone or laptop then? Because I don't feel the need to be in constant contact my (ancient) phone is only kept for emergency use and has nicads ! I don't have a laptop 'cos I don't need to lug a computer around with me, it's a benefit of being retired, but I do have two computers (his and hers) in the house which don't need to be recharged >:-) Strange though it may seem some people don't want/need to be constantly blathering or hauling slim rectangular objects about. Reg >>> ... LiPo battery? >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > They are WAY too fragile and temperamental... you would be better off > with a wife... less hassle ! Aw C'mon Reg..don't be a wuss. think of the dangers of a 40 glo, in terms of the fuel, the spinning prop...it just doesn't make the news when someone loses tow fingers in a oops I missed the needle valve' sort of accident. Ive got about ten packs now, and apart from ruining a couple stuck up trees or otherwise left switched on, not a single problem in 2 years. And those only lost capacity. in one case all ALL the capacity..and that one went a bit baggy trousered on me too. I still haven';t taken it down the garden for air rifle practice.. > Reg >>>> ... LiPo battery? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > I still haven';t taken it down the garden for air rifle practice.. chargers seem a bit pricy. you can't use the supplied nimh charger. > Aw C'mon Reg..don't be a wuss. Just look at the interest I have generated on a nearly dead group. Drawn 'em out of the woodwork again ! > think of the dangers of a 40 glo, in terms of the fuel, the spinning > prop...it just doesn't make the news when someone loses tow fingers in a > oops I missed the needle valve' sort of accident. The prop is probably going to do less damage if it is driven by a glow engine when it bites you. The glow will most likely stop before it reaches the elbow whereas the electric bacon slicer is just going to draw on it reserves harder and dig deeper ! Needle valves need adjusting but there are numerous incidents of electric bacon slicers starting up unintentionally and surprising their fond owner. Reg > The prop is probably going to do less damage if it is driven by a glow > engine when it bites you. The glow will most likely stop before it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > electric bacon slicers starting up unintentionally and surprising their > fond owner. And it's now quite common to see brushless setups that deliver the same power as a 60 or even larger, reaching for the switch or battery connector can be just as dangerous as reaching for the needle valve, and electrics can start up without warning... Greg >> The prop is probably going to do less damage if it is driven by a glow >> engine when it bites you. The glow will most likely stop before it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > can be just as dangerous as reaching for the needle valve, and electrics can > start up without warning... Not with modern speed controllers they can't. Especially with brushless where a blown FET will NOT run them. They need to be specifically armed. > Greg > Not with modern speed controllers they can't. Especially with brushless > where a blown FET will NOT run them. > > They need to be specifically armed. Whatever controller you have it only takes a knock of the stick and it'll start... Greg What do I reckon?......... .....I reckon there are enough different aspects to this wonderful hobby to suit everyone! So how about enjoying your particular favourite scene(s) without getting your head so far up your backside that you have to prove your kind of modelling is best? I have C/L, soarers, glow, diesel and electric models, which is best? the one that's making me smile at the time! If you want to be so anally retentive, give up modelling and become a traffic warden! As my teenage daughter would say "take a chill pill Bill" Dave :^) >> Not with modern speed controllers they can't. Especially with brushless >> where a blown FET will NOT run them. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Whatever controller you have it only takes a knock of the stick and it'll > start... Not until its armed.... > Greg > Not until its armed.... Which is unavoidable for many speed controllers like the Kontronix I have, you move the stick to max before the battery is fitted to disable the brake, then after a beep immediately move to min and await another beep. If you don't do this you have to remove the battery and start again, if you do then it's armed, like it or not, and any accidental knock of the stick will start it up, unlike an engine. I'm not arguing which is best, just pointing out the danger. Greg I must admit I find it amazing that people point to these motors and say 'Oooo dangerous... Accident waiting to happen...'. Then totally ignore cars sat at traffic lights, zebra crossings, road junctions etc, engine running, car in gear, handbrake off, just waiting for a foot to slip off a clutch. Much more dangerous. The reality is that cars are pretty safe at road junction. The reality is that if your hand is in the way when the motor starts the prop blade will just press against the skin. If the motor start then you put your hand in the way, well, what can I say? Allan >> Not until its armed.... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Greg I think it is symptomatic of the current belief that everything is someone else's fault and there is no such thing as an accident. Peter >I must admit I find it amazing that people point to these motors and say >'Oooo dangerous... Accident waiting to happen...'. Then totally ignore cars [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Greg > The reality is that if your hand is in the way when the motor starts the prop blade will > just press against the skin. That was certainly the case with the common or garden 600, but with brushless setups equaling 120 engines becoming common place I'm not so sure. I wouldn't want to try it would you?. >If the motor start then you put your hand in > the way, well, what can I say? Ouch might be appropriate 8-) Greg >> Aw C'mon Reg..don't be a wuss. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > electric bacon slicers starting up unintentionally and surprising their > fond owner. MIne don't, because they aren't plugged in./ Once plugged in they can start anytime once they are armed..this is expected. > Reg Just wait till methanol and fuel cells become the norm. Then one will be spared the agony of being able to see the flames!! Allan >> ... LiPo battery? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Greg > Just wait till methanol and fuel cells become the norm. Then one will be > spared the agony of being able to see the flames!! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Nah couldn't be as we're often told be certain people here LiPo's are >> harmless... use the correct charger and don't hit with a hammer. Lots of crashes here no problem. regulated charge with autocutoff. As for laptop i still have nimh. |
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