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Diesel fuel

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tux_powered@nowhere.at-all.net - 21 Sep 2006 19:05 GMT
For the few who seem to be left alive out there, the ones that have
survived the mysterious virus that seems to have eliminated so many
stout and true modellers that used to grace these groups... a question

Have you ever, in the past ( but not as far back as a previous life)
used model diesel fuel which contains no ether at all ?

Taking into account the exorbitant (read - nut cruching) cost of a
gallon of yer best 30% ether commercial mix, then running model diesels
fetches tears to your eyes and makes the average fashion model look
bloated compared to your skinny wallet.

I have had a couple of PAWs running, and throttling well, on a mix of
paraffin, oil and cetane booster.... roughly just over £3 a gallon as
opposed to £30.

I would be interested to hear of anybody else who has done this in the
past or recently.

You do need a normal 30% or so ether mix to just get the thing started.
A few priming drops down it's carbi/venturi and then it will pick up and
run well on the etherless fuel

My wallet is gaining weight nicely    >:-)

Reg
Malcolm Fisher - 21 Sep 2006 21:34 GMT
> For the few who seem to be left alive out there, the ones that have
> survived the mysterious virus that seems to have eliminated so many
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Reg

Years ago in Aeromodeller, one Robert Dulake had an article about etherless
fuel. Somewhere I still have the recipe and will post it when I discover its
whereabouts. From memeory rape oil was boiled up with a small amount of
detergent and glycerine to remove some sort of gunge. This was then mixed
with four times its volume of paraffin and then up to 5% isopropyl nitrate
added. There was no benefit adding more, but at least 2% was needed.

As you found Reg, it wasn't easy to start on this mix but a prime with
conventional fuel did the trick. I've used it quite a bit and found that the
engines run a bit hotter at higher compression and the exhaust "goo" is
very, very black. There does seem to be a gain in power and duration.

Malcolm
tux_powered@nowhere.at-all.net - 22 Sep 2006 21:20 GMT
><tux_powered@nowhere.at-all.net> wrote in message
>> Have you ever, in the past ( but not as far back as a previous life)
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Malcolm

Thanks Malcolm, it was due to you first mentioning that you had used
your own "homebrew" fuel that initially got me thinking about it. Then
a loooooong thread appeared on another group where people had been
experimenting with model diesel fuel substitutes. Someone posted an
extract from the Aeromodeller article that described how to make a
modified vegetable oil lubricant, sure enough it was the same method you
had used.

The aim was to get a model diesel fuel that didn't contain ether. The
problem is that once you remove the ether then the castor oil which is
the normally used lubricant won't mix with the paraffin. The modified
vegetable oil WILL mix satisfactorily with paraffin without any ether
being present.

Malcolm already knows all this so I am putting the info here for
anybody else that might be interested...

We can't use castor without ether in a paraffin based fuel. If we can't
use castor then the next alternatives are mineral and synthetic oils.
Some guys tried mineral 2 stroke oils and found that the engine didn't
respond well (Mr Dulake also found the same when he tried some) If we
did manage to use mineral oil then we still haven't got the protection
against lean running that castor gave us, and good quality oil ,
especially synthetic, is expensive.

The modified vegetable oil, using the cheapest and thickest cooking oil
in the local supermarket not only mixes well with paraffin but seems to
give good lubrication.

My first mix was made by diluting Model Technics D2000.
I mixed vegetable oil at.. one part to two parts paraffin. This was then
used to dilute a measure of D2000 to give 10% ether content instead of
the 30% or so. This mix not only started well with a choke prime but
also ran well and throttled/idled satisfactorily. The mix still retained
8% castor which had been diluted down from the D2000 original 24% castor
content.... so a bit of a safety net !

Not Bad, I now had a fuel which was 1/3 the cost of the standard
commercial mix and also retained some castor oil.

Next step was to go entirely etherless..... the fuel mix was 1 part
vegetable oil to two parts paraffin and about 2 - 2.5% cetane booster.

This mix would start OK in a hot engine with just a choke prime. If the
engine is cold it requires a prime with 30% ether mix to get things
warmed up. I used two or three primes into the carbi just using two -
three drops at a time, an application of the starter and it was away.

The etherless mix ran well, throttled and idled OK and the engine gave
no signs of being stressed with either mix.

The PAW 2.49 was set up for optimum running initialy with D2000. Once
the compression and needle were set the D2000 was run right out. The
engine was allowed to cool and the 10% ether mix was used. Compression
only needed to be 1/4 turn in from where it was with the D2000 and the
needle was screwed in a bit.

With the etherless fuel the compression was still around 1/4 turn more
than with D2000 but the needle was screwed in a half turn for best
running.

The PAW was run for 8 minutes or so at a time, frequently WOT, and
seemed quite happy on the etherless mix. As mentioned.. compression was
1/4 turn increased from normal and there was plenty of oil content in
the exhaust.

My experience and Malcolm's differs here as I found the exhaust to be
pretty clean, just a slight blue haze, plenty of oil being thrown out
not black and NO COOKING SMELL. Seems some guys in the States get a
burger bar smell, it must be some component of their fuel 'cos mine
smelt very similar to D2000 just not as strong.

The added benefit of the etherless mix.... you can put it in plastic
containers, which you can't do with an ether content.

D2000 cost me £30 for a gallon plus £7 postage, my etherless mix...
Paraffin £3-30 a gallon, vegetable oil 69p , glycerine 55p and my cetane
booster £7.99. The cetane booster will do one heck of a lot of fuel
mixes.

Alternatively if I used the 10% ether mix with its safety net of 8%
castor it would give me 3 gallons of fuel for the price of one gallon of
D2000.

Experimenting will continue and hopefully I will get to fly the
etherless mix shortly. I don't see any reason why flying would give any
problems - power should be better and duration should be a good deal
longer for a tank full.

Dig out your old diesels, scrape of the dust and ancient castor deposits
and get experimenting          >:-)

Thanks again to Malcolm who encouraged me to start faffing about with
diesels in the first place... by 'eck I do like them, and this way I
might be able to afford them       >:-)

Reg
Steve - 22 Sep 2006 11:49 GMT
> For the few who seem to be left alive out there, the ones that have
> survived the mysterious virus that seems to have eliminated so many
> stout and true modellers that used to grace these groups... a question
>
> Have you ever, in the past ( but not as far back as a previous life)
> used model diesel fuel which contains no ether at all ?

I've had a play but in a purely non-scientific manner (try this, try that,
try something else kind of thing) and my "measurement" of results was simply
"does it *seem* better".  It was quite a long time ago now and the details
are becoming somewhat hazy (of course I didn't make any notes!!) but here
goes.....

My first try was a mix of paraffin (bog-standard Esso Blue), 20W-50 car
engine oil and one of those cetane boosters.  It ran but, as you've
discovered, it needed starting with a drop of the real McCoy into the
inlet - "it" being an un-throttled PAW 19.  The tricky bit was getting the
compression increased to coincide with the burning of the last whiff of
commercial mix.  Power was down - quite a long way down - and the engine ran
very hard because the compression was wound in to keep it going on the
home-brew.  I concluded that the lack of an ignition agent was the culprit
and that having to run the thing so over-compressed was going to have
serious consequences for the longevity of the engine.
Mix was around: Kero 65%, Cetane stuff 5%, Oil 30%

Next attempt was to use EasyStart as an ignition agent in the mix and the
oil I used in all the mixes from now on was Castrol R-something or one of
the other castor oil based racing motorbike engine oils, Rock oil was one
such IIRC.  Incidentally, the EasyStart (or ether) is needed not only as an
ignition agent but to make the castor miscible with the burning agent -
without it the oil and the rest of the brew remain separated.  So, I
squirted out a can of EasyStart into a bottle and called that 25% of the
brew.  Then added paraffin, oil and cetane stuff to make the proportions to:
ES 25%, Kero 40%, Oil 30%, Cetane stuff 5%.  It was a transformation!  The
engine would start on the home-brew as well as run on it.  Compression was
still higher than on commercial stuff, but nowhere near as
engine-destroyingly high as with Brew-1.  I also tested it on a PAW 149, a
DC Spitfire and a DC Merlin.  All started and ran.  Result.

Suitably encouraged I played around with proportions a bit.  Best results
seemed to come with a mix of: ES 30%, Kero 40%, Oil 25%, Cetane stuff 5%.
However, the engines still ran a bit harder compared to commercial fuel.
Finally I experimented with different burning agents and mixes of such.
Instead of Kero I used straight DERV (made the engines a little bit harder
to start for some reason but ran ok once going), Kero/DERV mix (about the
same as straight Kero) and a Kero/DERV mix with the addition of about 5-10%
(of the total fuel/oil mix) four-star petrol.  This last seemed to make the
engines run very hot so I quickly abandoned that idea.  I also bought 500 ml
of proper ether from the chemist and tried that straight and cut with the
EasyStart.  The EasyStart was good stuff because there was no discernible
difference to the engine handling.  However, the Holts own-brand of
EasyStart (as opposed to the Bradex EasyStart that comes in yellow tins and
you can still buy today) was a poor performer.  It was cheaper but contained
diethyl ether (the stuff we want) and also an unspecified mix of
"Aromatics".  The real EasyStart might have had some aromatics too, although
unlike the Holts stuff it didn't say so on the side of the can, but whether
they were the same ones in different proportions or different ones that
worked better I have no idea - I just know that for me the real brand
EasyStart worked best.

I used my home brew for a long time before drifting back to glow engines,
mainly 4-strokes.  The models flew perfectly well on it so I was happy.  The
only ingredient that I never had was IPN (iso-propyl-nitrate) which would
probably have made my brews all but indistinguishable from commercial stuff.
However, it was scarce (really scarce!) and expensive which, had I bought
some, would have defeated the object of trying to make cheap home-brew!  An
alternative would be Amyl-nitrate which used to be available in small phials
on prescription for use by angina sufferers.  I never tried it (for angina
or engines!).  Amyl-nitrate is also apparently sold, or used to be sold, in
small bottles in sex shops - I've never been into one so I don't know.  What
it does I have no idea, but I can't imaging that the quantities available in
a sex shop would be enough to make a decent model diesel engine brew.  They
might also decide that you're a bit strange if you go in and buy a box
full!!

One final cautionary note here is that I broke the crank pin and bent the
connecting rod on the DC Merlin due to over-compression whilst playing with
mixes.  A brand new PAW 100 also lasted about about 10 minutes before the
connecting rod (big and and little ends) wore out.  The PAW 149 is now what
can best be described as having "a generous fit to all components" and the
Spitfire was clapped out anyway before I started.  It's had a very long
career and clatters over TDC a bit now but the PAW 19 will still run as will
a PAW 249 and  PAW 29.  The latter two had done a lot of running on
commercial fuel before they went over to home-brew.  The bottom line is,
it's not easy to make a mix that's as kind to your engines as commercial
fuel.  Longevity might be seriously impaired and the cost of some of the
ingredients added to the cost of blown engines might just add up enough to
offset the high cost of the commercial fuel.  You have been warned!!  ;-)
That said, it's fun and there's something rather nice about flying a model
that you designed and built yourself, receivs signals through a receiver
that you built yourself and the engine is running on fuel that you mixed
yourself.  Oh yes, and it's also fun to see all the more senior club members
gathering in a little knot just down-wind of you sniffing the air and
getting dewey-eyed as you refuel.

And finally finally, take care if you get real (chemist) ether and store it
in the dark and cool.  Ether is light sensitive and likes to change into
other things, mostly bad and most notably diethyl ether peroxide, which is
highly explosive.  The chemist suff *might* contain a splash of something
called BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene) which is an anti-oxidant which should
prevent nasty surprises, but you can't be sure.

Have fun!  :-)
Steve
tux_powered@nowhere.at-all.net - 22 Sep 2006 21:20 GMT
>> Have you ever, in the past ( but not as far back as a previous life)
>> used model diesel fuel which contains no ether at all ?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> are becoming somewhat hazy (of course I didn't make any notes!!) but here
> goes.....

Thanks Steve for a very informative post. I need to take time to go
through it again (and again) and take onboard the info you have provided.

I have had some initial success with a method that was used by Malcolm,
when he first mentioned it to me I was just starting with diesels and the
implications of what he was telling me didn't sink in. When I came
across the guys who were starting to experiment I recalled what Malcolm
had first mentioned and when I checked with him I found the modified
vegetable oil fuel was what he had used. I know he had success with it
and I didn't want to reinvent the wheel so decided that was the way to
go..... others are trying more exotic (outlandish?) ingredients but I
just want something that works and is a hell of a lot cheaper.

I have put all the details of my attempts in the reply to Malcolm's
post.

The method looks to be good although I don't know if it would be suitable
for small diesels which I think need higher ether and castor content
than bigger ones.

Regards
Reg

> My first try was a mix of paraffin (bog-standard Esso Blue), 20W-50 car
> engine oil and one of those cetane boosters.  It ran but, as you've
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> Have fun!  :-)
> Steve
 
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