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Model Forum / General / Models / January 2007Chuck backplate material choice
Hi All, I'm getting hold of a 6" 3 jaw chuck soon to use on my crummy Warco 300 lathe, so will need to make up a back plate adapter. I was also thinking about making it adjustable like this design while I was at it: http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Projects/SetTru Backplate/ Material choice seems to be cast iron, mild steel or aluminium. Rob at Mallard Metals has all three available in the right size for similar price, OK the ali is a little more expensive. Ali appeals due to it's ease of machining and weight, but I'm not sure how suitable it'd be and if there would be any issues with the various bolts wearing loose in the softer material. I've never worked with cast iron, so out of familiarity I'd probably plump for MS. Any thoughts? Cheers, Rob > Hi All, > I'm getting hold of a 6" 3 jaw chuck soon to use on my crummy Warco 300 > lathe, so will need to make up a back plate adapter. I was also > thinking about making it adjustable like this design while I was at it: http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/7x10-7x12-Projects/Se tTruBackplate/ > Material choice seems to be cast iron, mild steel or aluminium. Rob at > Mallard Metals has all three available in the right size for similar [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the softer material. I've never worked with cast iron, so out of > familiarity I'd probably plump for MS. Cast iron is what most OE parts would be made from. It's tough, durable, damps vibrations reasonable well and is very easy to machine. It machines dry, swarf comes off very cleanly as dust or fine chips and it's nice to drill and tap. Steel would be second choice but ordinary mild steel won't machine as cleanly as cast iron and you'll end up with a rats nest of stringy swarf everywhere. Leaded mild cuts pretty nicely though. I'd avoid aluminium for something like this. It's as strong as cast iron and easy to machine but soft and easily damaged. You want something that registers very positively. -- Dave Baker Puma Race Engines www.pumaracing.co.uk Camp USA engineer minces about for high performance specialist (4,4,7) Thanks Dave, cast iron it is then! Cheers, Rob > Thanks Dave, cast iron it is then! > > Cheers, > Rob A good source for this is cast iron dumb-bell weight discs - I made a face plate a couple of years ago from one - 2 kg is about 6in diameter, and will cost about 4 quid from a sports shop I pay about 50p/kg at the car boot for them  SignatureBigEgg Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover. http://www.workshop-projects.com - Plans and free books - *Now with forum* > > Thanks Dave, cast iron it is then! > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > diameter, and will cost about 4 quid from a sports shop > I pay about 50p/kg at the car boot for them Often wondered if they were suitable for machining - was there a hard skin or did they machine nicely? AWEM > Often wondered if they were suitable for machining - was there a hard > skin or did they machine nicely? Unpredictable. I machined a disk and it was so nice to machine. Then a rectangular weight that was a real pain. And I scraped a touching prism out of it. :-( Nick Signature*********************************** *** Available now in NZ and AUS *** *********************************** <http://www.yadro.de> > "bigegg" <news@hardboiled.plus.com> wrote in message <snip> >> cast iron dumb-bell weight discs - I made >> a face plate a couple of years ago from one - 2kg is about 6in >> diameter, and will cost about 4 quid from a sports shop >> I pay about 50p/kg at the car boot for them > Often wondered if they were suitable for machining - was there a hard > skin or did they machine nicely? very nicely, no voids or anything - dunno if that can be said for every single disk from every manufacturer of course. SignatureBigEgg Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover. http://www.workshop-projects.com - Plans and free books - *Now with forum* Very interesting, I just happen to have some 5kg weights (nearly 8" dia) lying around that aren't being used for anything worthwhile, think I'll chuck one up and see what I can get out of it!! Thanks for the tip! Cheers, Rob Bluddy 'ell!! Just spent the last couple of hours convincing that lump of pig iron lathe to cut that lump of pig iron weight. I've discovered the joys of the hard skin phenomenon in cast iron, which was made even more enjoyable by the raised lettering cast on the weight. Still I've managed to get one side faced off pretty well despite not being able to find a decent compromise speed, not surprising when cutting from 1" to 7" diameter - oh I've got to get a 3 phase motor so I can hook it up to my mills inverter. Time for a cuppa I think, then I can think about cutting the registration insets so I can get it mounted directly to the lathe spindle, and start all over again on the other side - blimey!! Cheers, Rob > Still I've >managed to get one side faced off pretty well despite not being able to >find a decent compromise speed, not surprising when cutting from 1" to >7" diameter You are allowed to change speed as you go, and it is usual to face inwards, from 7" to 1". SignatureCharles Lamont >and it is usual to face >inwards, from 7" to 1". Its boring otherwise. Regards, Tony >> Still I've >>managed to get one side faced off pretty well despite not being able to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You are allowed to change speed as you go, and it is usual to face >inwards, from 7" to 1". I was taught at school to face outwards, and where some lathes are set up so that facing inwards goes with the same settings as turning towards the chuck, with others the opposite is true. I wonder wheter there's some sort of local or national 'tradition', which varies from place to place? Cheers Tim Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service I picked up facing from the middle out from one of the workshop series books, I seem to remember it saying that it gave a better finish, but with this job I have been cutting in both directions anyway just to get through the damn stuff. As for changing speeds half way, well I could do but that would increase the job time tenfold as I'd be battling with a crappy pulley system every 30s. To be honest the 400rpm I ended up on did an OK job, it was only on the last outer inch that the lathe struggled. Not had a chance to get back on it though due to lower back pain and sciatica making standing at the lathe a bit of an issue. Great isn't it, I'm 34 and falling apart!! Cheers, Rob >I picked up facing from the middle out from one of the workshop series >books, I seem to remember it saying that it gave a better finish, but [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Cheers, >Rob That's what happens when you go around lifting weights... Another technique to use when trying to remove as much as possible is to set the speed for the outside and rough face to part way towards the centre until you've removed nearly as much width as you need. Then set the speed higher and do the inside half. Then do a finishing cut over the whole diameter. Mark Rand RTFM > That's what happens when you go around lifting weights... Haha, that stopped about 4 weeks after I bought the weights, about 15 years ago ;) > Another technique to use when trying to remove as much as possible is to set > the speed for the outside and rough face to part way towards the centre until > you've removed nearly as much width as you need. Then set the speed higher and > do the inside half. Then do a finishing cut over the whole diameter. That makes sense. I'm actually tempted to bung it on the mill, now that I've got the one side faced, to hack off the excess on the other side, no issues with varying cutter speed at least - and it would be a good test of the mill now that it's pretty much ready for action. Cheers, Rob > I'm actually tempted to bung it on the mill, now that > I've got the one side faced, to hack off the excess on the other side, > no issues with varying cutter speed at least - and it would be a good > test of the mill now that it's pretty much ready for action. Cheaper on the lathe with HSS-bits that you can regrind by hand than dulling your valuable milling bits. IMHO Nick Signature*********************************** *** Available now in NZ and AUS *** *********************************** <http://www.yadro.de> As an update, I ploughed though the other side yesterday on the lathe, so it's just ready for drilling now. Alas we had a power cut today from just after noon to just before 7pm, so no drilling in other words. Life without power is soooooooooo boring!! Now why did it seem like I cleaned up much more iron dust off my lathe at the end of the day than I could possibly have removed? I started with a 5kg weight, there's still at least 1kg of it left, yet I seem to have scraped up about 10kg of dust ;-) Now I just need to figure the best way to centre my newly acquired rotary table under the mill spindle and I'll be set! Got a feeling it involves holding a DTI in a chuck and turning that against the bore in the table, that sounds resonable to me anyway. Cheers, Rob Hi Rob, sorry to see you are fellow sufferer, 21 years now for my bac and neck probs, 49 going on 90. I have found that when doing long job at the lathe to use a bar stool and sit down while chomping through th metal. I am even going to try and convert my stool this year. I was tol that a 15deg angle on the seat top rotates the hips and gets that mos important curve into shape, regards from a 24/7 sufferer DaveRobbus Wrote: > I picked up facing from the middle out from one of the workshop series > books, I seem to remember it saying that it gave a better finish, but [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Cheers, > Ro -- DCree Hi Dave, A stool does sound like a good idea, it certainly doesn't take very long standing at the lathe before I start feeling twinges down there. The other night I started marching on the spot, which did help (and luckily no one can see me in the workshop doing it!) but it did make it a bit harder to maintain a steady rate of turn on the cross slide ;) > Hi Rob, sorry to see you are fellow sufferer, 21 years now for my back > and neck probs, 49 going on 90. I have found that when doing long jobs > at the lathe to use a bar stool and sit down while chomping through the > metal. I am even going to try and convert my stool this year. I was told > that a 15deg angle on the seat top rotates the hips and gets that most > important curve into shape, regards from a 24/7 sufferer Dave Cheers, Rob > A stool does sound like a good idea, it certainly doesn't take very > long standing at the lathe before I start feeling twinges down there. > The other night I started marching on the spot, which did help (and > luckily no one can see me in the workshop doing it!) but it did make it > a bit harder to maintain a steady rate of turn on the cross slide ;) There are special stools for that purpose. We call them "standing stool" or "standing aid" and aren't really for sitting on, more kind of leaning. They look like this: <http://www.proaktivo.de/images/ni-37501G.jpg> Different styles and prices available. Bigger tool dealers have them too, sometimes. I use mine sometimes and I can reccommend them. Also, don't stand on concrete, but on some kind of rubber mat. That really helps! Nick Signature*********************************** *** Available now in NZ and AUS *** *********************************** <http://www.yadro.de> > There are special stools for that purpose. We call them "standing stool" > or "standing aid" and aren't really for sitting on, more kind of leaning. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Also, don't stand on concrete, but on some kind of rubber mat. That really > helps! That looks the business Nick. I could probably weld up something out of a bit of spare tube though and save a few bob ;-) Actually, I wonder if a shooting stick could be adapted? You have a good point about standing on concrete, I could do with getting some anti-fatigue matting - doesn't seem that cheap though for a bit of rubber :-( Back to the adapter, I've got it all fitted up on the lathe now, just got to wait for the chuck to arrive so I can finish up the mounting spigot and I should be set. Cheers, Rob > I could do with getting some anti-fatigue matting - > doesn't seem that cheap though for a bit of rubber :-( What I got therefor (yes, those anti-fatigue mattes are expensive) was a much cheaper rubber doormat. That type often found in the entrance of bigger buildings. Has holes in it, quite thick, not too hard. If you don't understand what I wasn't able to describe I can post a picture. :-) Nick Signature*********************************** *** Available now in NZ and AUS *** *********************************** <http://www.yadro.de> HI Rob, looked at your pic, what lathe is it, the tailstock look identical to my Clarke lathe. The fit of the spigot on my lathe is ver close, i have to use a mallet when changing chucks. I once read a article that stated that if you machine the spigot undersize, then yo can clock the chuck into place before tightening the bolts, i dont kno if this a good idea or not, i have never tried it. I went to th hospital yesterday and the consultant has recommended a scan, whoopee i cant wait, regards Dav -- DCree > HI Rob, looked at your pic, what lathe is it, the tailstock looks > identical to my Clarke lathe. The fit of the spigot on my lathe is very > close, i have to use a mallet when changing chucks. It's a Warco 300/1 lathe mill combo, so yes same as the one Clarke retail (plus a few other brands). I guess my spigot is a bit looser that yours as I've never had to resort to persuasion to get the chuck off. > I once read an > article that stated that if you machine the spigot undersize, then you > can clock the chuck into place before tightening the bolts, i dont know > if this a good idea or not, i have never tried it. Sounds feasible, although possibly a bit tricky. I mounted up my new backplate the other day, it was running about 0.5mm off true, didn't take too long to get it running perfectly true, so I feel pretty confident that I'll be able to use it to true up with the chuck in place. > I went to the > hospital yesterday and the consultant has recommended a scan, whoopee, > i cant wait, regards Dave Result! I really should go and bug my Doctor. Cheers, Rob Hi Rob, i dont know what work you do on your lathe but most of my stuf is short length. One of the biggest problems i have is the tailstoc fouling the cross slide when using tailstock support, it seems th sticky out bits are on the wrong side. There is a big overhang on th tailstock end of the lathe but a vertical surface on the chuck end what with the short barrel movement (about 23mm) it is near impossibl to do some machining jobs, i have rotated my t/s 180deg, it just need clocking in and has given that freedom that was lacking in the origina design. One worry i have is the t/s clamp is now at the rear end of th barrel, only time will tell if i have to move it. Go see the doc, this is one of the mistakes i made, self employed an just grit your teeth, get on with it. In my case, as far as th government are concerned, i was healthy, not causing trouble, when i comes to claiming benefits you are looked on as something that on picks up on thier shoe when walking the dog, all the best Dav -- DCree > Hi Rob, i dont know what work you do on your lathe but most of my stuff > is short length. One of the biggest problems i have is the tailstock [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > design. One worry i have is the t/s clamp is now at the rear end of the > barrel, only time will tell if i have to move it. I know exactly what you mean, the t/s is pretty useless if you need to get up close, and the range of the barrel is a bit useless, although I can move mine at least 1.5", 23mm seems terribly restrictive. Turning the whole assembly around sounds like genius!! I may have to look into that, shame I clocked it up true just the other day ;) > Go see the doc, this is one of the mistakes i made, self employed and > just grit your teeth, get on with it. In my case, as far as the > government are concerned, i was healthy, not causing trouble, when it > comes to claiming benefits you are looked on as something that one > picks up on thier shoe when walking the dog, all the best Dave Well I've been told to just contact the surgery's physiopherapist direct, so I'll see about getting around to that this week. Back to the chuck, it's finally on and mounted up on the lathe. Did the usual when getting very close to the correct spigot diameter, "just one more cut" I though, and the tolerance was gone - ho hum! Anyway I managed to center up a bit of 1" bar in it to within 0.01mm, although I suspect my dti is not actually that accurate, cheap chinese junk me thinks! I'm now knackered after winding the chuck jaws in and out a few times, it's insanely stiff to turn. I suppose I should take it all off the lathe and pull the chucks rear plate to see if there's any reason for it being so tight. Even when I completely removed the 3 jaws it was tight to turn. Dunno if that just means it's more accurate to start with :-/ Cheers, Rob Hi Rob, sounds like something binding in your chuck. One of the firs things i did when i bought my lathe was to fix 3 stainless studs int the chuck using loctite, i found it easier to locate the chuck and the screw on the nuts, rather than try to thread the bolts in such a smal space while holding the weight of the chuck, hope that makes sence. have the 4 jaw for my lathe but would probably need a hoist to do th change over nowadays. Good luck with the physio, cheers Dav -- DCree > Hi Rob, sounds like something binding in your chuck. Well I pulled it all apart this evening, couldn't see anything wrong with it, so I put it back together and it turns much better now, clearly I have a magic touch ;-) > One of the first > things i did when i bought my lathe was to fix 3 stainless studs into > the chuck using loctite, i found it easier to locate the chuck and then > screw on the nuts, rather than try to thread the bolts in such a small > space while holding the weight of the chuck, hope that makes sence. Most cunning! Fitting the bolts from the back is indeed a pain. This new backplate has studs in effect, the bolts pass though from the front and are araldited in place, makes life a lot easier! > I have the 4 jaw for my lathe but would probably need a hoist to do the > change over nowadays. Good luck with the physio, cheers Dave I bought an old Pratt Bernard 8" 4 jaw from RDG a couple of years ago, coupled with the rather crude steel backplate I made up for that means I have to be on very good form before even thinking about getting it up on to the lathe. I should've used studs on that backplate, that's for sure!! Think I should probably sell it on and get a more sensible 6" 4 jaw should the need ever arise. Cheers, Rob Hi Rob, good luck with the spigot. Are you going for a tight fit o leave room for adjustment? Hi Nick, i have searched the net to fin your link and found some weird back pain sites but not the one yo gave, good job i am not a hypo, regards Dav -- DCree Chuck arrived today: http://www.equiview.co.uk/240z/Marlow/zeatz_chuck.jpg It seems the business, and also came with a camlock backplate fitted, which I may just have to sell on once I figure out which type it is. Not bad for about ?43 delivered! > Hi Rob, good luck with the spigot. Are you going for a tight fit or > leave room for adjustment? Well, this is an interesting development. The chuck has a 125mm recess and the 3 mounting bolts on the backplate: http://www.equiview.co.uk/240z/Marlow/backplate.jpg Have a 127mm outer diameter. I was going to replace those 3 bolts with countersunk cap screws, but now I think I'll just glue them in place and machine them so that they form a three point spigot in effect. I'll go for a good fit between them and the chuck, but I'm pretty certain they'll do the job. The chuck is front mounted with M10 cap screws so that'll be held on pretty tight with those. Charles Lamont wrote: > I have found chiropractic very helpful I used to go to an Oesteopath pretty regularly but never got much out of it other than temporary relief. I'm not sure how different Oesteo is to Chiro mind. I've consulted my sister (conveniently a doctor) who doesn't think I'll get anything useful out of the NHS for mechanical back pain, and if it did turn out to be disc related (which she doubts) then I'd be up for some pretty risky back surgery. Perhaps a case of better the Devil you know. I would like to find out one way or the other what the root cause of it is though. Cheers, Rob Hi Rob As an ex sciatica sufferer I sympathise. An NMR scan should be able to accurately diagnose the problem. It did in my case and surgery was the only answer and a complete cure. (Touch wood). Russell > I used to go to an Oesteopath pretty regularly but never got much out > of it other than temporary relief. I'm not sure how different Oesteo is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheers, > Rob >> Hi Rob, sorry to see you are fellow sufferer, 21 years now for my back >> and neck probs, 49 going on 90. I have found chiropractic very helpful SignatureCharles Lamont > I was taught at school to face outwards, and where some lathes are set > up so that facing inwards goes with the same settings as turning > towards the chuck, with others the opposite is true. > I wonder wheter there's some sort of local or national 'tradition', > which varies from place to place? If I want to remove lots of material, I face inwards. For a nice cut, I face outwards. Nick Signature*********************************** *** Available now in NZ and AUS *** *********************************** <http://www.yadro.de> > I was taught at school to face outwards, and where some lathes are set > up so that facing inwards goes with the same settings as turning [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs > Vintage diesel engine service I usually rough facing forward cutting with the tip of the tool. Then finish backing out, cutting with the side which is a cutting edge but has been angled to give a shallow back clearance angle. By backing out this way the material gets engaged (cut) progressively. In the middle of the cut, the face looks like it has a thin obtuse frustum between two cylindrical bodies the frustum is as high as the depth of cut and the two diameter are in the order of 2-3 mm depending on the clearance angle given when facing forward. This description is not literally accurate but should make sense to those familiar with facing on a lathe. Mauro |
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