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Model Forum / General / Models / January 2008RDG v G.H.Thomas dividing head
I've been comparing these two devices and cannot spot any real difference other than the RDG is cheaper and ready made and the Thomas one is a kit from Hemingway. Has anyone else got an opinion? >I've been comparing these two devices and cannot spot any real >difference other than the RDG is cheaper and ready made and the Thomas >one is a kit from Hemingway. Has anyone else got an opinion? The RDG one looks great value to me. Saw one at the last show I attended (Warwick?) and as you say, looks exactly like a Thomas VDH. No idea how well it is made though. Regards, Tony >>I've been comparing these two devices and cannot spot any real >>difference other than the RDG is cheaper and ready made and the Thomas [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >attended (Warwick?) and as you say, looks exactly like a Thomas VDH. >No idea how well it is made though. Yes, in fact it looks from the photo to be so similar that it would, but for one important fact, infringe the Design Right under S 213 of the Copyrights, Designs and Patents Act of 1988. (AFAIK, GHT licensed his designs and drawings to Hemingway, which still sells them albeit after 2 changes of ownership.) The important fact is that, sadly, such rights did not exist before the 1988 act, and designs published before then were protected only by copyright, making it more problematical to pursue remedies. GHT published the book in 1983, and I think the design might have been in ME even earlier. Even so, if the rights were mine, I should be considering a chat with Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Run. I made a GHT VDH in the 80s, and I certainly learned more about precision engineering from that than almost anything else. Still, life is short, and if someone had offered a good quality ready-made version at the time I would have been tempted. David  SignatureDavid Littlewood > I made a GHT VDH in the 80s, and I certainly learned more about precision > engineering from that than almost anything else. Still, life is short, and > if someone had offered a good quality ready-made version at the time I > would have been tempted. > > David VWP (very well put). l like this phrase. The engineer's dilemma... Dirk I, too, have made a GHT VDH but his Universal Pillar Tool is still to finish. With one of these Mill/Drill affairs, I bought a Vertex dividing head but with the ability to be tilted to form a rotary table and with a Myford nose to fit my lathes. OK the Vertex is too big for the Myfords but I would still like a headstock dividing attachment and a graduation marking tool by R.Main but one which automatically turns with each stroke- done by F J Langfield in ME. This would work in conjunction with the GHT HDA. So I agree with David and this would have enabled me to watch another set of wheels do the thinking. Norman All my geese have come home - or will on Thursday. More of this later! I knew that there was something wrong or different with the RDG tool. The constant storms and computer problems delayed me( actually, I am at a dithering age but Mum's the word) Of course, what is part of the GHT tooling is missing. from the RDG version. Has any other one of us spotted the missing bits? Norman >All my geese have come home - or will on Thursday. More of this later! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Norman Is this a question Norman or another conspiracy theory ? Has it been missed off, stolen or has MI5 got it ? No conspiracy, John! People asked about the views about the tools. When GHT designed his version, he subsequently modified it to include the ability to go from the lathe and vertical slide to the milling machine as well. He left the head portion to have a supported facility which the RDG version doesn't seem to possess. There are other missing bits! If you recall, Chaddock adopted the same sort of support for the Quorn. Yer pays yer money-- blah blah Norm > No conspiracy, John! People asked about the views about the tools. > When GHT designed his version, he subsequently modified it to include [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Norm For those of us who do not have a genuine GHT head and can only see the inadequate picture on the RDG site, can you explain in less cryptic terms exactly what is 'missing' from the RDG item? What, for example, is the 'supported facility' that allows the transfers? What other missing bits are there? > > No conspiracy, John! People asked about the views about the tools. > > When GHT designed his version, he subsequently modified it to include [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the 'supported facility' that allows the transfers? What other missing > bits are there? Oh, dear- and I have to hold my wet finger up to find North. Really, it is unfair. I have mentioned the apparently missing support for use in confined setups but I can mention what the GHT has. It has a detachable nose, reducing sleeves, centrefinders, collet adaptors, stub mandrels and a tailstock alignment device( to support the support- and to do tapers.For example, I have a small tool and cutter grinder like a Clarkson or Stent. OK, I can grind the middle but doing an end is not quite as simple. Really, there is a time when Workshop Techniques and the Quorn Book have to be obtained. I have both and the Workshop Manual but have a goodly collection of workshop tools such as 4 tool and cutter grinders, 2 dividing heads 2 rotary tables geared and one swing one, DRO's and a mountain of accessories. Compared to some, my outfit is pretty sparse. After all £150 is only three tankfuls of petrol and whilst Hebden Bridge has had floods one of my friends is getting about- and she and a blind husband are still getting about.She is a classics scholar and has uttered 'Caveat Emptor. on more than one opportunity! Nunc Dimittis or Luke 2.23 Norm >>>No conspiracy, John! People asked about the views about the tools. >>>When GHT designed his version, he subsequently modified it to include [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Norm Nunc est bibendum! Tom, Surprisingly, the Michelin man was! He was 'tired' ( nota bene- the quality of the prose is improving- but I'll try not to go into the langue D'oc which is my second language) Toutes Mes Felicitations Don Norman > Tom, > Surprisingly, the Michelin man was! He was 'tired' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Don Norman Oleum perdisti. Sen. Martinius Sometimes wonder about people that know all about missing bits of tools,refurbing old Myfords because they bought a clapped out one an yet at the same time are always on about how many Mercedes they have an homes abroad,have several tool and cutter grinders and have read jus about every book ever published. Do they ever actually make anything ? Alla -- Allan Waterfal When you leave school after a nigh none existing education in the war years, the only book which wasn't pulped was the Bible. It does contain a bit about the Parable of the Talents and how one can manage with a lot or a very little to do things. Obviously, I come from the no hopers of Tyneside pit villages so one cannot expect miracles. Like that tiny few who managed to surface out that dirt and filth, I retired some 23 years ago. I don't need to work anymore and I can do things. The important thing in that Bible was to remember about ' a tenth of my goods' or my time or whatever. My little ginger headed erk has never forgotten those days. After almost 60 years and a massive bike smash, he still calls me 'corporal' All I got him was a shilling more a day to feed that immaciated 6 stone body. Johnnie has his War Pension. It took me 49 years but that guy used to mend aeroplanes that I had to fly in. I retired from work 23 years ago. I can't quite remember what I did but hope that the rubber tree that replaced me is being better looked after. One thing that came out of all this was an old man- well, he looked old. He gave his time to me and I now work to return the help that he gave me. I've now chucked my hat into the ring. I was quite content to play about with models and things of little consequence. All that I thought was that I had to account to my God in due course. Seems not. Pick my hat out of the ring- if you dare. > When you leave school.. > So you're into walking? > > When you leave school.. > > > > > So you're into walking? No man goes further than he knows not where he is going Oliver Cromwell or Sir Walter Raleigh to QE1 'Fain would i climb yet fear I to fall' And Good Queen Bess replied 'If thy heart fail thee, cimb not at all' I think that signing 'Fergus O'More' or the Long GreyMan of Ben MacDhui might just fit. >>> When you leave school.. > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > MacDhui > might just fit. Like I said, you're into rambling... OK, I have made a GHT VDH- I can go rambling because I am the only one so far who has addressed the problem- for this guy. Clearly, it is impossible to download a comparison between two fairly similar tools when I haven't seen one of them. I have suggested that the guy can do no better than than to buy the book for the differences- and if you have the access to what the newer drawings were, I think that we would all like to see them. Just for the record, I believe that we have a guy who does rotary tables for a living who has added his glib comments. He could have helped the guy. I believe for the record that another makes division plates etc. If we are going off for a ramble, let's visit all the viewpoints. Somewhat annoyed Norman > OK, I have made a GHT VDH- I can go rambling because I am the only one > so far who has addressed the problem- for this guy. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Norman Well thankyou for answering anyway. I do have the book in question and with the help of it I finally managed to work out what you might mean. BTW, since you went all biblical in your footer: try Acts 19.32 Pete Peter, right- we have lift off! Ignore' the voices crying in the be-wilderness' If you refer to the photos from RDG and the drawings of GHT on Page 158 of Workshop Techniques ie Fig 17.1, you will find the casting has been drilled to accept a steady. RDG shows the top of the bolts etc but there in no indication of the drilling. So we don't know if it is there or not. Unfortunately, Hemingway Kits is down and I can't price the gubbins either. If you feel capable of doing the drilling or using the hole in the RDG, there is no reason why you shouldn't lay out the money and treat it all as a part made set of castings. After all, you do get the micro attachment( OK, talk amongst yourselves) and you get the detent and three plates- plus a tail piece.and a pair of arms.Lot of work- trust me! What you have got- or will get, is a damned sight more than the single casting which Reeves used to flog.Neil Hemingway flogged the lot but there must have been hundreds made from simple beginnings. Peter, good luck! Oh, and you can wake up those who haven't made a dividing head yet but only talk and criticise. A quote- I did think of St Paul and 'Be thou circumpect' but settled for Samuel Butler's the Critic( How apt) and 'He could distinguish and divide, A hair 'twixt south and south- west side' Norm > Peter, right- we have lift off! > Ignore' the voices crying in the be-wilderness' [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Norm Sorry to interupt the fun, but does anyone have one of the RDG divider yet? If so, could they perhaps post a picture or two to reveal a bit more of the detail? Incomplete, by the GHT design, or not? That is the question. Suitable for use as is? Or not? Been pondering pounding out a pattern for the GHT version. With a little persuasion, I figure I could get one of my friends to pour a couple for me. Cheers Trevor Jones Trevor, The book -Workshop Techniques- contains the drawings for VDH to Thomas's design. Page 295 Appendix C to whom GHT remarked 'There are people living in parts of the World far removed from us' Moving slightly away, GHT brought the modifications for the Headstock version back- from New Zealand! In a happier exchange of ideas, the Universal Pillar Tool was mentioned. The drawings for this excellent tool are also in the book. I have the staking tool bit done. So whilst your mates are getting ready to pour, why not do the other bits? I can assure you that you will not be disappointed in the end products. Norm > Trevor, > The book -Workshop Techniques- contains the drawings for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Norm I have a copy of the drawings squirreled away. No worries there. The actual books are on my wants list, but lower down than some other things. IIRC the headstock dividing attachment had it's origins in some articles published by Radford. I have a set of castings on hand, for a pillar tool looking Sensitive Drilling Machine as per drawings published by Percival Marshall Co. Ltd. The drawing number is W.E.2, and I really must search out the other sheet from wherever it got stuck in one of my recent moves. The castings were produced by a foundry in Regina,SK. some years back, when taking a set of drawings such as these to the foundry, did not involve a requirement to own a bank. I am quite curious as to the overall value of the RDG version. It appears to me, that, as one writer suggested, the unit may well be a pre-assembled kit, or pre-part-machined casting set, but at the price, I would think that it represented quite a value in saved labour and time. Some folk do want tools they can use, vice projects, and the picture that RDG put up, is lacking a bit in the detail. Me, I'm pretty much just curious, at this point. Cheers Trevor Jones On Jan 29, 8:30 pm, ravensworth2674 <nor...@n-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > If you refer to the photos from RDG and the drawings of GHT on Page > 158 of Workshop Techniques ie Fig 17.1, you will find the casting has > been drilled to accept a steady. RDG shows the top of the bolts etc > but there in no indication of the drilling. So we don't know if it is > there or not. At last I now see there might be a difference. Perhaps I'll ask Mr RDG for more pictures. It took a long time but I knew we'd get the answer. Thanks one and all. >try Acts 19.32 Prefer Bordeaux 1982 personally ;-) Regards, Tony > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:34:33 GMT, Peter Harrison > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Regards, > Tony A little 'whine' for thy stomach's sake- Tim 1- 5.23 >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:34:33 GMT, Peter Harrison >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >A little 'whine' for thy stomach's sake- Tim 1- 5.23 The book offers *some* useful advice then ... Regards, Tony > All my geese have come home - or will on Thursday. More of this later! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Norman The RDG isn't as complete as that of G H Thomas, as the word is, Gerald Bull was doing the drawings as a favour some years back, when suddenly he succumbed to terminal perforation. In all probability, you're acquainted with the perforator. Tom Thanks Tom for your comments. Having built the GHT beast( and learned from it), I was merely issuing some words of caution to those who are kitting out workshops- and was 'going on a bit' as is my wont. GHT had gone a long way to incorporate so many details over the years- before he, too, had to succumb to the ravages of old age and infirmary(?). Oddly, I was indirectly thanking one of our number for a contribution to a national cancer charity. Didn't know that clair voyance was part of the forum. Oh, well! I think that it would interest a lot of us if we knew that we could,say, fit Myford collets or other ones or chucks and faceplates. GHT did say Versatile. Meantime, I await further valued comments. Norman I hope nobody thought I set out to raise a stir against RDH or criticise the Hemingway kit. (Horses for courses and all that). I was trying to seek readers views on the merits of ready made or "rolling ones own". If one wants an excellent project the kit is an excellent way to go. Alternately if you just want to get on and do some dividing of small work I guess the RDH machine is for you. |
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