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Model Forum / General / Models / May 2008Following on from 'Rust in Workshop'
Hi all. Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think of what next to do to rid the rust. No-one picked up upon the question about how I can get rid of the rust on the bed of the milling machine. Although I sprayed the machine vey well with WD40, the bed has become quite rusty. Would it be safe to use very fine wet'n'dry or steel wool to clean it up? I'm sure the rust is only superficial. Strangely, the lathe bed (Myford) isn't rusty at all ! Could that be the difference between Iron and Steel? Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. Cheers. > Hi all. > Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. > Cheers. it's gone rusty because of the wd40 you used way oil on your lathe you used wd40 on your mill so wipe the mill down with hydraulic oil ...hydraulic is the same as way oil without the tackfiers . wd 40 will hold moisture ... you can use scotch bright to clean your mill. or 00 wire wool all the best...markj On 9 Apr, 22:55, "Brad." <merlin_in...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hi all. > Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. > Cheers. it's gone rusty because of the wd40 you used way oil on your lathe you used wd40 on your mill so wipe the mill down with hydraulic oil ...hydraulic is the same as way oil without the tackfiers . wd 40 will hold moisture ... you can use scotch bright to clean your mill. or 00 wire wool all the best...markj Cheers for that, I really appreciate your advise. It makes sense about WD40 and the amount of condensation in the workshop sending tings rusty. I'm not so worried now. Many thanks. Brad. <snip> >> wd 40 will hold moisture ... > Cheers for that, I really appreciate your advise. It makes sense > about WD40 and the amount of condensation in the workshop sending > tings rusty. I'm not so worried now. Hmm, first time I've ever heard that said about WD40, considering that it was designed primarily as a water dispersant for electrical circuits etc. In fact it's first use was in the USA space/defence programme as a water displacer and corrosion inhibitor... Now I don't normally suggest that people read Wikipeadia, do to the gross unreliability of the facts contained within (due to the policy of allowing anyone edit without first proving their knowledge) but this brief page on WD-40 is very close to the fact that have been known for over 40 years - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 I suppose what might be the problem is the cheapo imitations that are around that claim to have some of the same properties as WD-40, many of these do indeed contain a high degree of water as they are not actually marketed as water displacers, being just penetrating oils instead. The other problem is, as Trevor has pointed out, WD-40 is very good at removing other oils too... :Jerry: wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > instead. The other problem is, as Trevor has pointed out, WD-40 is > very good at removing other oils too... I think the problem lies in the fact that as WD-40 is a water dispersant, it seems to do this by forming a solution/mixture/emulsion with the water, everything else evaporates fast leaving just the water behind. I use WD-40 only when I need a solvent, not a lubricant - locally (Australia) we use RP-3 as a longer term thin lubricant (locks, firearms etc where powdered graphite won't always do the job). I wipe off the WD-40 after it's done the job & lubricate with oil, or spray with lanoguard (lanoline spray) if I need to prevent ways rusting.  SignatureKaren If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.' Catherine Aird > :Jerry: wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > solution/mixture/emulsion with the water, everything else evaporates > fast leaving just the water behind. No, it doesn't leave the water behind, if it did that it wouldn't be a water dispersant! > I use WD-40 only when I need a solvent, not a lubricant - <snip> I only use WD-40 when I want to remove water from hard to reach areas, when I need a solvent I use a solvent <g>...The problem with WD-40 and rusting is because the solvent it contains also removes any oil that is coating the part, if you need to protect from corrosion after dispersing water you need to either recoat with oil or some other sealing agent. > > :Jerry: wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > dispersing water you need to either recoat with oil or some other > sealing agent. What about using 3 in 1 oil? Pete > What about using 3 in 1 oil? Pete Just how much money can you afford to burn? Waste? Throw away? Work out the cost per liter of that stuff! Read the label. The stuff I have says that it's 20 weight oil. Buy a liter of non-detergent oil and save yer coin for tools. Cheers Trev > What about using 3 in 1 oil? Pete You are 10 days late for April first <g> Cliff Coggin. >> > :Jerry: wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >What about using 3 in 1 oil? Pete As poor quality varnish goes I do find it exceptionally slow drying.... Richard > Hi all. > Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. > Cheers. WD40 is probably at least half the problem. Lay the can on the workbench, and pound your forehead against it until you have gotten over the urge to own any. f.cking garbage, that stuff. It's mostly solvents. Some very light oil. It washes away the stuff that could keep your machines from rusting, then evaporates. Supposed to work OK for livening up an old bit of fish bait, though. The environazis would prolly getcha, if they caught you spraying it on something you were purposely going to put into a river or lake, though. That and most other things that the stuff is fit for, in the out of doors. :-) Get a jug of oil, or if you MUST use a spray can, a can of a LUBRICANT !!! There are probably several choices in the same place they foisted off WD40 on you at. For long term storage in lousy conditions, I have found LPS-3 pretty good. It forms a gummy coating on stuff, that makes moving slides difficult, but it won't rust. LPS-2 is a grease based lubricant that works well. Slathering the machines in plain unused 30 WT non-detergent motor oil works too. Try to avoid the detergent oils, as the detergents tend to be hygroscopic, not a good thing around your machine tools. Cheers Trevor Jones I use Scotchbrite (pan scourers) to clean off the rust and oil i after.Cheer -- Nouris >Hi all. >Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. >Cheers. Dave, as Mark said earlier, you can use scotchbrite pads to get rid of the rust. Avaialble in several different grades from fairly abrasive to non-abrasive 'polishing' grade. Have a look at the J&L site and type scotchbrite in for the search. For rust prevention of tooling in medium or longer term storage, I can happily recommend a product which although quite expensive, is very effective indeed. In the injection moulding business we spray all the working surfaces of our *extremely* expensive mould tools with a moisture guard product when they come out the machine and before they go onto the storage racks. Bear in mind these mould tools often have a very high diamond polished surface finish, and a 0.2mm diameter spot of rust can mean a rejected part and an expensive re-polish of the tool, so the stuff we use has to be 100% effective. The products we use are made by either Ambersil or Rocol, and these spray a thin waxy film over the surface that displaces and repels water and totally prevents rust. We have some mould tools stored outside in a 20ft container for 2years, where the outside of the tool rusted, but the working surfaces were as bright as new. Links here: Ambersil http://www.crcind.com/csp/web/ProdDisp.csp?lng=3&country=GB&product=MOULD%20PROT ECTIVE%20GREEN&brand=AMBERSIL Rocol http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0 496271 Not cheap, but a single can goes quite a long way, and compared to the many £000's that a mould tool costs, a cheap solution for us. Peter > Hi all. > Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. > Cheers. for the ultimate protection .... they don't tout this with their product back to black silicone spray ... it works very very well as a rust protectant but has side effects ... they are ... if you ever do any painting in your workshop .......it will prevent paint sticking to any surface ........even in the minutest quantities. the stuff will coat every surface in the workshop (from the mist drift) .....so can get on to all metals ...unknowingly ...preventing you painting them properly in the future. think that's why you don't see these polymer silicone sealants for cars on the market anymore ...think the auto industry outlawed them ...because ...they were having failing results with insurance jobs so if you don't do any painting ...or plan to ..........you can use the stuff. all the best.....markj <snip> <google quote> think that's why you don't see these polymer silicone sealants for cars on the market anymore ...think the auto industry outlawed them ...because ...they were having failing results with insurance jobs </quote> Oh YES they do... :~((((((((((((( You're not doing to well in this thread, are you! > <snip> > <google quote> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You're not doing to well in this thread, are you! meaning that i must have done well on other threads .so will take that as a compliment ...thank you . aha ...the infamous tony morgan or rhyl-on-line ... strikes again . haven't you got a good word for anyone and why hide behind a disguise . the outlawed info passed on to me by a painter friend ... the stuff is not liked by car sprayers .. yes you can still get the stuff .....but not as readily available as it used to be . . all the best.......mark On Apr 11, 1:44 pm, ":Jerry:" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote: > "mark" <aboard_epsi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message <snip> >> You're not doing to well in this thread, are you! <google quotes> meaning that i must have done well on other threads .so will take that as a compliment ...thank you . aha ...the infamous tony morgan or rhyl-on-line ... strikes again . haven't you got a good word for anyone and why hide behind a disguise . the outlawed info passed on to me by a painter friend ... the stuff is not liked by car sprayers .. yes you can still get the stuff .....but not as readily available as it used to be . . all the best.......mark </quote> Well one out of five is not bad. I'm not sure if you have been correct in any other thread so can't comment but considering your comments in this thread I'm not holding much hope... I'm not Tony Morgan (what ever did happen to him, he just vanished one day - mid discussion IIRC)... I'm not in disguise, I've been posting as the same person for the last 9 years (spam traps don't count), and where I have changes 'username' to it's been clearly flagged... Nothing has been 'outlawed' (I can't think of a single product that has been banned, no wait, - there are two that come to mind - Carbon tetra-chloride (sp?) based brake cleaner and solvent based paint), I suspect that what your 'friend' meant was that any product that contains silicon has been 'outlawed' from the paint-shop that he works in (as it will have been in any paint-shop)... Agreed, auto-painter sprayers don't like silicon, wow you got that one right! Wrong, many auto' products that contain silicon are still available off the shelf in Halfords etc. - even the mentioned "Back to Black" - even worse are those 'Colour-back' and 'Glass shine' silicon sealers (waxes) for car paint work... Heres one you may not know about ,Lanolin its very good at protectin against rust good for timber also some say for the skin but experienc has shown me at least one who was alergic to it , the old mixture o steam cylinder oil mixed with a little kero is a good long ter protector -- olmo > Heres one you may not know about ,Lanolin its very good at protecting > against rust good for timber also some say for the skin but experience > has shown me at least one who was alergic to it , the old mixture of > steam cylinder oil mixed with a little kero is a good long term > protector. And another little known fact: historically the major source of lanolin was the sewers of Bradford, where the wool trade would wash wool and the wool lanolin would be in the wash water. Does Bradford still have a wool trade or have we lost that as well as everything else? AWEM >> Heres one you may not know about ,Lanolin its very good at >protecting [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >still have a wool trade or have we lost that as well as everything >else? Did you also know that the Esholt (Bradford) sewage works, a very large site, had (has?) its own railway system and had at least one but ISTR two steam locos which were fired on recovered 'wool grease'? Cheers Tim > Did you also know that the Esholt (Bradford) sewage works, a very > large site, had (has?) its own railway system and had at least one but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tim If the peoples of third world countries can use camel dung as a cooking fuel, is there any reason why the human equivalent can't be used to fire those locos in the sewage works? The fuel would be free but I can't say I fancy being a stoker there. Cliff Coggin. >> Did you also know that the Esholt (Bradford) sewage works, a very >> large site, had (has?) its own railway system and had at least one but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Cliff Coggin. It was in effect oil firing, the stuff was preheated, so probably not a bad job at all. Tim <snip> > If the peoples of third world countries can use camel dung as a > cooking fuel, is there any reason why the human equivalent can't be > used to fire those locos in the sewage works? The fuel would be free > but I can't say I fancy being a stoker there. Depends at which point in the process you are talking about, raw crap will be a tad to wet I suspect <g>, but I'm sure that the dried waste left over after all treatments have been carried out could be made to burn - BUT - isn't that by-product far to valuable to just burn, isn't there other uses to which it is already being put to, I'm sure that it's used as a fertilizer and in some other process already. >> Did you also know that the Esholt (Bradford) sewage works, a very >> large site, had (has?) its own railway system and had at least one but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cliff Coggin. not enough fibre - camel dung is basically compressed plant fibres - like the recycled paper "logs". too much animal matter in human waste. knowsthorpe at Leeds grows some really nice tomatoes tho... SignatureBigEgg Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover. http://www.workshop-projects.com - Plans and free books - *Now with forum* > >> Did you also know that the Esholt (Bradford) sewage works, a very > >> large site, had (has?) its own railway system and had at least one but [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > knowsthorpe at Leeds grows some really nice tomatoes tho... ...ah, but the tomato plants at sewage works are usually self seeded from seeds that have passed though the human gut. Now at many power stations the seeds probably come from a packet, but the copious hot water available ensures a good early crop AWEM >> knowsthorpe at Leeds grows some really nice tomatoes tho... > ....ah, but the tomato plants at sewage works are usually self seeded > from seeds that have passed though the human gut. Now at many power > stations the seeds probably come from a packet, but the copious hot > water available ensures a good early crop and already cooked as well? any way, back on topic... I find a wipe over with cheap diesel motor oil (15w40) for 8 quid a metric gallon (5 litres) keeps rust from forming - I also use it as cutting fluid when drilling. I'll see what it's like on the lathe if I ever get it up and running - probably a bit thick, but I'm guessing some paraffin will thin it down. SignatureBigEgg Hack to size. Hammer to fit. Weld to join. Grind to shape. Paint to cover. http://www.workshop-projects.com - Plans and free books - *Now with forum* >>> knowsthorpe at Leeds grows some really nice tomatoes tho... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > and already cooked as well? In the case of those grown near Sellafield, Microwaved! :~0 anyone used the Rustillo rust preventative products from Castrol ? Derek > Hi all. > Thanks for all the replies about rust in my workshop. I'll have a good think [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Incidentally, Dave is my name, Brad is my nickname. > Cheers. Try Eureka Fluid Film: http://www.eurekafluidfilm.com -- SeanTan |
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