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Model Forum / General / Models / May 2008New Lathe question
I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first "home lathe". I have a reasonable budget, but Myford is out of the question. I did an engineering apprenticeship back in the early 1980's and spent a month working with what I believe was a Colchester Triumph 2000. After my apprenticeship I moved into Electronics and finally ended up in IT where I am now. Somewhere in the recesses of my brain I hope are some residual turning skills. I have looked at Chester and Warco on the web, with the latter looking more attactive. However I am somewhat confused as to which direction to go in. Belt change or variable speed and what features are most desirable? No one product seems to offer what I consider the perfect solution. The Warco WM280V-F looks attractive as it offers a reasonable capacity and a power cross feed. The latter I could consider as pretty much essential from my previous experience. One concern I have on this model is the low end speed, 125 RPM. Is this slow enough? I would rather speed a little more and get something decent than get a machine that I "grow out of". I am not really up for refurbing a machine as it will be my first machine tool. A lot of the work I am planning will be model scale stuff, but the capability to machine larger items is atractive. Have I been "spoilt" by my turning stint during my apprenticeship and am expecting too much from a first lathe? The advice of the group would be much appreciated Stuart Have you looked at www.lathes.co.uk ? Your experience was likely to be on a Triumph lathe. They were, and are, very popular. Unfortunately, they're 3 phase. They sell regularly on eBay and are very good lathes if a little large for home use. Having said that, I've been promising myself one for years. You need to decide what sizes you're going to machine, that dictates the lathe size. Go for a proper lathe if you can rather than a cheap feature-poor machine. There's lots available second hand. Again, eBay will give an indication of prices. Things to consider Distance between centres and swing over bed Go for a gap bed if possible Look at the clearance above the saddle as well as the chuck swing. Look how high the tool post is as that dictates how large a cutting tool you can use Do you want imperial/metric/both screw feeds Look for a large enough bore through the headstock. No doubt others will add to this list until there's so many needs that no one lathe will do. Then you will need multiple lathes, oh and a miller, a grinder, a shaper............ Good luck John > I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first > "home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Stuart > Have you looked atwww.lathes.co.uk? > Your experience was likely to be on a Triumph lathe. They were, and [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Two points: Slightly confused as to why a good Myford should be too expensive if you have £1500 to spend on the Warco. OK, not a brand new Myford but you should be able to get a nice one for £1500. A good AUD Boxford would be even less and a late one would be a 5" model. I appreciate your desire not to rebuild something but not all second hand machinery is in need of a rebuild! There was a nice Boxford on Homeworkshop the other day - no idea of the price though! See here http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk Remember the bigger machines are cheaper and 3 phase isn't the work of the devil. Most can be run of inverters or converters (or in my case both) if you have some electrical confidence. As for your specifics: Possibly spoilt but there's no going back. 125rpm too fast IMHO Variable speed is easily sorted with an inverter on a 3 phase motor (and much better than single phase I agree than power cross feed is useful - as is a norton box. Charles Lathes.co.uk was my source to jog my memory on what lathe I used. It was the rotary speed select paddles that triggered the identification. There must have been about 20 of these in the Training workshop at British Aerospace, Brooklands. Who knows where they ended up when the site closed in '87/88. > Have you looked at www.lathes.co.uk ? > Your experience was likely to be on a Triumph lathe. They were, and [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >> >> Stuart >I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first >"home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Stuart I've never come across anything I wanted or needed to machine that I couldn't do on my old Colchester Student. It copes with anything up to normal car engine size such as flywheels, cranks, cams. The gap bed helps for large diameter items. A small lathe like a Myford might be ok for machining tiny stuff but I don't actually think it does it any better than a larger machine. Whatever you're machining it always helps to have a sturdy and rigid machine. A Triumph 2000 is a nice lathe but a bit large for hobby use. Dealers always want a huge amount for even old crappy machines but you can often do better asking about in local machine shops if anyone knows of an old lathe for sale. With CNC taking over so much of the work these days perfectly good manual machines often end up in skips if it's too much hassle to try and sell them. A mate rescued a very nice Student from a skip a few years ago after someone moving workshop just binned it rather than pay for it to be moved. Colleges also often sell nice machines for very little money. So I'd say Student, preferably the later flat top model, if you can find one will do anything you need. A gap bed one for choice. A quick change toolpost and Burnerd collet chuck set are the two best things you can add to it.  SignatureDave Baker Puma Race Engines I wasn't saying that I want anything as large as a Triumph 2000, just illustrating what I had used before. Thanks for the responses, my suspicion that 125 RPM wasn't slow enough seem well founded. There is a small machine shop local to me, I will pop in and see if they have anything to suggest. The general consensus is that I will get much better value by going second hand commercial/British than new Chinese import. The challenge for me will be making sure that I don't get an "old dog". I am certainly willing to undertake some Electrical work and an inverter does seem a good option, for speed control and /or 3ph conversion. >>I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first >>"home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > toolpost and Burnerd collet chuck set are the two best things you can add > to it. On 24 Apr, 15:27, "Stuart Bridger" <stuart.brid...@btinternet.com> wrote: > I wasn't saying that I want anything as large as a Triumph 2000, just > illustrating what I had used before. [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Stuart I wouldn't argue with the Student type machine but if you can go a little smaller have a look at a Boxford AUD or maybe a BUD they really are very good value for a quality small (4 1/2" - 5") British machine. I have a first class long bed AUD which I guess would fetch about half of what that Warco would cost you. In fact that is the reason I haven't sold it as seems much too good to sell for that sort of money. The smaller Colchester Bantam or particularly the Chipmaster is also worth considering if you can find a good one. As has been rightly said conversion these days to a 3 phase motor is both relatively cheap and simple. If you have limited space to house the machine then do have a look at a later Myford S7 with the power crossfeed - you can pick up very nice ones for a fair bit less than that Warco these days. While the Warco you specify is fine for hobby use it is a little lightweight for larger more taxing work. Warco in general have a very good reputation for aftercare and that particular machine has been specified with some of the model engineer wants in mind, larger spindle bore than average, variable speed, power crossfeed etc and for a small footprint has reasonable capacity. The last one is double edged though as with lathes there is no substitute for mass of iron to give smooth cutting. If you do a search on here using Warco, Bantam or Import late youwill find a lot of discussion and a wide range of views, try this thread as an example: http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.models.engineering/browse_thread/thread/ 545e8a4537e8d62c/d6658e9af2dac8ca?lnk=gst&q=warco+lathes#d6658e9af2dac8ca Good luck Best regards Keith >On 24 Apr, 15:27, "Stuart Bridger" <stuart.brid...@btinternet.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > >Keith Stuart Following on from what Keith and others have said....this recent ad from the http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/site might be worth a look. *************************************************** Posted on 23rd April For Sale Tools Boxford AUD 4 ½ BGSC Centre Lathe. This was already a top notch unworn machine, and what started out as a de-swarf and clean became a complete strip and rebuild, carried out over 4 years. This included all components and accessories, down to every, and I mean every nut and bolt. The cabinet was shot blasted. All components were primed and finished in Boxford Blue paint, which was computer colour matched to the original shade. This is an Imperial machine with 4 ½ Centre Height and 28 between Ctrs. Single phase ¾ HP motor. Speed range 40 to 1400 rpm. Norton Imperial quick change gearbox. Friction dials on cross and compound slides. Powered long and cross feeds. Unmarked ways, no chipped gear teeth. Dewhurst type Fwd/Rev control switch, and separate emergency stop panel. Mounted on Boxford cabinet stand, incorporating the lockable 3 shelf storage cabinet complete with 2 keys on the original Boxford labeled fob. This IS the finest AUD that you will find anywhere, complete with, Pratt Burnerd 5 3 jaw Self Centering Chuck Int & Ext jaws, and key Pratt Burnerd 7 4 jaw Independent Chuck and key Face plate Catch plate Traveling steady Thread dial indicator Micrometer carriage stop Dickson 2 way adjustable tool post and 5 holders, inc parting off. Tailstock chuck and key Live Centre Dead centres Single toolpost Allen keys, and spanners. Chuck change safety board Know your lathe Boxford manual The lathe is located in Biggin Hill Kent where it can be viewed by arrangement. I have an engine crane available on site to assist with loading onto your transport. Follow or paste this Web link to view pictures. Click on a pic to see larger version, and then again for full size. http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll1/derekwakeford/ If you are then seriously interested contact me to discuss. Derek Wakeford derek.wakeford [at] talk21.com Biggin Hill UK I have no connection with the advertiser but , from his pictures, he looks to have done a fine job. No doubt the (unstated) price will reflect this! -- Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!" Hello Stuart, I'd agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far. A couple of other lathes to consider are a Smart & Brown (like the Boxford it's a Southbend near clone) and also a real Southbend. A very nice Sabel went on fleabay a couple of weeks ago for £200 with chucks, steadies etc (admittedly that _was_ cheap) and Southbends are frequently around that figure. I don't think most people selling stuff like that would mind being asked for an inspection and if they do avoid it. Boxfords especially, seem to be always available and spares and parts are easy. Although not vastly larger than a Myford they are all (Boxford S&B, Sb) much more heavily built. Machines of that ilk have a much nicer feel than most of the far eastern import stuff. I had a wiggle of the hand-wheels on a Sieg in Axminsters showroom recently and it felt as though it had square balls lubricated with gravel compared to my Sable, I was shocked - but it did have an all enclosed gearbox etc with neat twiddly knobs. You perhaps need to think a little about 'what you like to do' and what you want to do with it. Possibly also the potential re-sale value/ratio if you decide it's not for you. Rgds Richard > Stuart Stuart, one quick question. Are you the Stuart I think you are? Cliff Cliff I suspect yes if you are the Cliff I suspect you are! >> Stuart > Stuart, one quick question. Are you the Stuart I think you are? > > Cliff Small world, I'll email you. > Cliff > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> Cliff I've got a Colchester student made in 1960, bought s/h and it's still quite a usable machine. Has a few wear issues. Cost 360 quid, since when it's had a new 3-jaw which cost about the same again, as the original was unreliable. Also came with a 10" 4-jaw and a faceplate. They crop up now and again, as do the smaller bantam and chipmaster. The chipmaster is a lovely thing if all in order. don't be too worried about 3-phase - the student is originally 3HP 3-phase, but mine now has a high-torque 2HP single phase motor, which don't cost much new. It'd be down on power for the sort of maximum workrates it was capable of when new, but for the smallish stuff I do with it it works fine. I'd back a decent s/h machine such as this against the cheap Chinese style stuff. Good Chinese is pretty good, mind, and there are some around. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first >"home lathe". See Bob Minchin's post. There could be an opportunity there. From the sublime to the ridiculous, try this for a laugh:- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230245042597 Mark Rand RTFM >From the sublime to the ridiculous, try this for a laugh:- >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230245042597 Well we could always make him a "Best Offer"...<G> Regards, Tony >>From the sublime to the ridiculous, try this for a laugh:- >>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230245042597 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Regards, >Tony I like the Super 7 attachments will fit bit. What a load of bollock's, totally different bed width, centre height etc. The honest truth is these 254's are an orphan lathe being dropped before they realised their full potential. This one does have steadies, most don't and I believe they aren't available from Myfords now. I'm also wary at the extra's offered with this as if you look at the end of the lathe it has a virtually fixed drive to the gearbox and I don't think those change gears will fit in the manner they do on a non gearbox machine. It's also showing a thread on faceplate and the 254 had a bolt on chuck, also seen in the pic's. -- Regards, John Stevenson Nottingham, England. Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:- http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/ >>>From the sublime to the ridiculous, try this for a laugh:- >>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230245042597 >> >>Well we could always make him a "Best Offer"...<G> They turned down my "best offer" of 500 quid... >>Regards, >>Tony [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What a load of bollock's, totally different bed width, centre height >etc. Its the same ball handles though. >The honest truth is these 254's are an orphan lathe being dropped >before they realised their full potential. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >It's also showing a thread on faceplate and the 254 had a bolt on >chuck, also seen in the pic's. Yes, thats a bit odd isn't it? Would make a good donor machine for a CNC conversion...you'd pay a fortune for those nice shiny metal leadscrew covers... Regards, Tony > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:10:27 +0100, Mark Rand > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Regards, > Tony Typical E-bay seller, wants £4.5K for it and you have to pay extra if you want "the wheels" as well, worth all of £25. Actually the wheels fitted to the stand say it all :-) Regards Keith >>I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first >>"home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >From the sublime to the ridiculous, try this for a laugh:- >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230245042597 nice, but not really 4.5K of nice, I think. especially if you could have this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150239027661 or if you want smaller, this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190217648993 Nice L5 here too: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230246575313 Also noted a couple of chipmasters. I've never been entirely convinced about Myford. Sure, it's a good machine, but I don't see any real justification for them being twice the price of other good machines. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > I've never been entirely convinced about Myford. Sure, it's a good machine, > but I don't see any real justification for them being twice the price of > other good machines. I have a shabby ML7. No, I don't think the machine itself is worth more, but what does please me is the easy availability (albeit at a premium) of absolutely any spare part, accessory or upgrade I care to name. This could have been equally true of any number of superior machines, and some, like colchesters and boxfords, aren't too hard to find either .. but it's Myford that's in top position and we might as well live with it. If you can find other, sturdier, stuff then be glad - Myford's popularity is giving you a bargain ! -adrian > I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my first > "home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Stuart This: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wabeco-CC-D6000E-CNC-Lathe_W0QQitemZ180237557898QQihZ008QQ categoryZ112399QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem might be interesting if you have a few bob to spend. Wabeco are good, and while this is CNC it can also be used manually. no connection (I just want it myself !!!) -- Peter Fairbrother >> I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my >>first "home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >-- Peter Fairbrother Yet another seller who has ignored the new eBay rules that the bid price must include VAT! David SignatureDavid Littlewood >>> I an interested in getting into Model Engineering and looking at my >>>first "home lathe". [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Yet another seller who has ignored the new eBay rules that the bid price >must include VAT! which, IMHO, is much fairer. I don't approve of people quoting ex-vat prices, except for genuine wholesalers. I presume eBay will start pulling auctions, before long. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >>Yet another seller who has ignored the new eBay rules that the bid price >>must include VAT! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I presume eBay will start pulling auctions, before long. Even worse, IMO, are those sellers who add a buyer's premium to the bid price, like nasty auctioneers. If that's not contrary to eBay rules, it jolly well should be. David SignatureDavid Littlewood <snip> > Even worse, IMO, are those sellers who add a buyer's premium to the > bid price, like nasty auctioneers. If that's not contrary to eBay > rules, it jolly well should be. The solution is in the buyers hands, stop using (crim)eBay, but then the illusion of getting a 'bargain' is just to great for those addicted to (crim)eBay... ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the illusion of getting a 'bargain' is just to great for those >addicted to (crim)eBay... Not in the least. Merely use the link to report the sale to ebay. It will get pulled very quickly. Mark Rand RTFM >><snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > will get > pulled very quickly. What needs to happen is for (crim)eBay to be pulled, along with it's bed-fellow PayPal... >What needs to happen is for (crim)eBay to be pulled, along with it's >bed-fellow PayPal... Bye bye troll. <PLONK> ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the illusion of getting a 'bargain' is just to great for those >addicted to (crim)eBay... that really is a narrow and pointless statement. There are all manner of things that I can find or get from ebay sellers which I'd have no end of hassle or pay more for otherwise. Also, if I'm selling, I can spread the word far wider than I ever could otherwise. Undoubtedly, there are crooks, but most aren't, and as for ebay's policies, well, yes, they're in it for a profit - but for example, if I wanted to accept credit card payments directly, I'd have to get onto the bank for a merchant account which would cost me quite a lot even if they let me have one. Overall, ebay and paypal are more good than bad. It's also possible to dodge the really bad ones, most of the time, with care and a touch of luck. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! <snip> [ re criminals and their use of (crim)eBay and pay(my)pal ] > Overall, ebay and paypal are more good than bad. It's also possible > to > dodge the really bad ones, most of the time, with care and a touch > of luck. IOW, "I'm aright Jack, bollocks to the rest of them", obviously you consider that crime is unimportant as long as it doesn't come knocking at your door... > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > consider that crime is unimportant as long as it doesn't come knocking at > your door... If you genuinely feel Ebay to be criminal, why not put your money where your mouth is and sue the company in a court of law? Cliff Coggin. >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If you genuinely feel Ebay to be criminal, why not put your money > where your mouth is and sue the company in a court of law? Err, sue them for what, I've never been foolish enough to use (crim)eBay, what you suggest is a bit like suggesting that someone has to suffer from crime before they can either air an opinion or know right from wrong! One only needs to read the many accounts of people being subject to criminal activity via either (crim)eBay or its partner in crime - pay(my)pal - to know that those behind the site are part of the problem, it's not in their interests to sort out the sites problems all the time there are so many 'bargain' hunters prepared to put up with the status quo as (crim)eBay and pay(my)pay get their money no matter what... >>> <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >put up with the status quo as (crim)eBay and pay(my)pay get their >money no matter what... The trouble with usenet and the archived material in Google groups is that you can't go back and delete these things. Once they are posted, they are out there forever, and if it was me I think I'd probably be a bit more careful about what I posted. The advice is genuinely for your benefit btw, I'm not sticking up for e-bay. Peter >>>> <snip> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > a > bit more careful about what I posted. Yeh, I'm sure that those who have ripped off people will file court papers!... > The advice is genuinely for your benefit btw, I'm not sticking up > for > e-bay. Sure, you could have fooled me... >>> <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > 'bargain' hunters prepared to put up with the status quo as (crim)eBay and > pay(my)pay get their money no matter what... In other words you don't have the courage of your convictions. You are just another useless whinger, content to moan about the actions of others while hiding behind a computer screen and doing nothing positive yourself. Cliff. :Jerry: wrote: > Err, sue them for what, I've never been foolish enough to use [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > put up with the status quo as (crim)eBay and pay(my)pay get their > money no matter what... While I admit Paypal's performance suffered when eBay took them over, it was no worse than some of the other criminal takeovers ( sorry bank buyouts ). Paypal has worked well for me for years, but if people want to avoid using it, then they can pay the other corporate con artists vast amounts of money to transfer funds. Banks currently charge £20 to transfer ANY amount into the UK while Paypal does it for little more than the normal extortion on exchange rates. Lets campaign for scrapping all currencies so no exchange rate cons - THAT will piss off the con artists in the banks :( eBay is a different matter and we do need a couple of ALTERNATIVE auction sites, but the only ones I see are even worse at present :( SignatureLester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >consider that crime is unimportant as long as it doesn't come knocking >at your door... oh, bugger off, troll. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >>>Yet another seller who has ignored the new eBay rules that the bid price >>>must include VAT! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >price, like nasty auctioneers. If that's not contrary to eBay rules, it >jolly well should be. It is, I think. certainly they pulled one of mine for "if paying by paypal add 3% to help cover the fees". I re-listed it as no paypal... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! <snip> >It is, I think. certainly they pulled one of mine for "if paying by paypal >add 3% to help cover the fees". > >I re-listed it as no paypal... I re-listed a couple of items recently and got an automated notice saying that offering PayPal was compulsory for that item - sod that! Richard ><snip> >>It is, I think. certainly they pulled one of mine for "if paying by paypal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Richard that's a new one. might depend on the listing type. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >> <snip> >>> It is, I think. certainly they pulled one of mine for "if paying by paypal [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > that's a new one. might depend on the listing type. It is a new rule. Provide payment information –- Choose the payment methods you’ll accept from buyers. PayPalPayPal is a fast, easy, and secure way to accept credit card or checking account payments on eBay. To keep eBay a safe place for both buyers and sellers, sellers who register after 17th January, 2007 are required to offer either PayPal or a merchant account credit card as an accepted payment method SignatureLester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php >>> <snip> >>>> It is, I think. certainly they pulled one of mine for "if paying by paypal [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >January, 2007 are required to offer either PayPal or a merchant account >credit card as an accepted payment method Sounds like a complaint of the OFT would be justified, as this is a clear abuse of a dominant trading position ("If you want to trade on the only significant on-line auction system, you must use our extortionate in-house bank"). No, I'm not going to do it, I never sell, only buy. David SignatureDavid Littlewood |
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