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Eagle Suirface Grinder

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the wizard - 26 May 2008 11:42 GMT
Hi to all you knowledgable and helpful people,
Enough buttering up, is there someone out there with an Eagle surface
grinder. I bought one yesterday without handbook or grinding wheel,
but at a very advantageous price.
The question is, what size wheel is "standard" and for that matter
what grit/bonding mix.do I need for good finish on steel, The grinder
will not be used in a commercial time constraint situation, so stock
removal rates are less important than finish accuracy and appearence.
Suggestions as to where I can get a copy/scan/loan of the handbook,
anyone?
Thanks in advance.
T,W
,
Peter Neill - 26 May 2008 12:06 GMT
>Hi to all you knowledgable and helpful people,
>Enough buttering up, is there someone out there with an Eagle surface
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>T,W
>,

Standard wheel size is 7" x1/2" x1.25" bore (180 x 13 x 31.75mm),
however if you want to use a thinner wheel, you will need to make a
new hub clamp disc, as on the Eagles these tend to be specific for the
width of the wheel - important to check.
Check the wheel rotation too, (should be anti-clockwise IIRC) as the
hub clamp is held on with a normal right hand threaded nut.

As for wheel grit types, there is as much debate here as the HSS vs
Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
vice versa. A 46 grit size is a good general standard to start with,
in a 38A or WA (white alumdum) material in perhaps an H hardness.

Lots of good information direct from Norton in the following link:
http://www.ind.nortonabrasives.com/Data/Element/Node/ProductLine/product_line_ed
it.asp?ele_ch_id=L0000000000000003789

Do be careful if you're new to grinding though, as IMO a grinder can
be one of the msot dangerous machines in the workshop.
Small light cuts (0.003" is a large cut), don't feed too fast (or too
slow), and about 0.010"- 0.015" crossfeed will give a nice finish.
And always find the high-spots first before you index a grind across
the whole part.

IIRC the handwheel for feeding the knee is indexed in half thou'
divisions.

Peter
the wizard - 26 May 2008 12:39 GMT
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 03:42:08 -0700 (PDT), the wizard
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Peter

Cheers for that Peter, I knew interwebb would come in handy one day.
T.W.
Christopher Tidy - 26 May 2008 20:19 GMT
>>Hi to all you knowledgable and helpful people,
>>Enough buttering up, is there someone out there with an Eagle surface
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
> vice versa.

Why is this? I'm curious. Is it because lost grit gets embedded in a
softer workpiece and then wears away the grinding wheel?

Best wishes,

Chris
Peter Neill - 26 May 2008 20:31 GMT
>> As for wheel grit types, there is as much debate here as the HSS vs
>> Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Chris

The hardness refers to the strength of the bond holding the grit
together, rather than the grit itself.

A hard material will dull or blunt the grit, and if it doesn't break
off then the wheel will glaze and not cut, so a softer wheel allows
the grit to break away easier and then effectively presents a sharp
new cutting edge.

Softer materials don't wear the wheel so much, so can use a harder
bond.

Peter
Christopher Tidy - 26 May 2008 22:44 GMT
>>>As for wheel grit types, there is as much debate here as the HSS vs
>>>Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Softer materials don't wear the wheel so much, so can use a harder
> bond.

Thanks, Dave and Peter. That makes good sense. Presumably the rate of
wheel wear must be kept much lower than the rate at which material is
removed from the workpiece, otherwise you'll lose your accuracy, is that
right?

Best wishes,

Chris
Dave Baker - 26 May 2008 22:44 GMT
> Thanks, Dave and Peter. That makes good sense. Presumably the rate of
> wheel wear must be kept much lower than the rate at which material is
> removed from the workpiece, otherwise you'll lose your accuracy, is that
> right?

Yes - and your pc clock is an hour out.
Signature

Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Christopher Tidy - 26 May 2008 22:55 GMT
>>Thanks, Dave and Peter. That makes good sense. Presumably the rate of
>>wheel wear must be kept much lower than the rate at which material is
>>removed from the workpiece, otherwise you'll lose your accuracy, is that
>>right?
>
> Yes - and your pc clock is an hour out.

It looks okay to me. My clock is reading 10:52 pm. My previous message
is shown on the news server as being posted at 10:35 pm. But your reply
to my 10:35 pm message is shown as being posted at 9:44 pm. Are you sure
it's not your clock, or your news provider's clock?

Best wishes,

Chris
Dave Baker - 26 May 2008 23:47 GMT
>>>Thanks, Dave and Peter. That makes good sense. Presumably the rate of
>>>wheel wear must be kept much lower than the rate at which material is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> 10:35 pm message is shown as being posted at 9:44 pm. Are you sure it's
> not your clock, or your news provider's clock?

Definitely not mine but maybe something to do with either of our news
providers.
Signature

Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Dave Baker - 26 May 2008 21:39 GMT
>> As for wheel grit types, there is as much debate here as the HSS vs
>> Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
>> vice versa.
>
> Why is this? I'm curious. Is it because lost grit gets embedded in a
> softer workpiece and then wears away the grinding wheel?

It's because hard materials like hardened steel or tungsten carbide blunt
the grains of abrasive before they have time to be released by the bonding
agent to expose fresh sharp grains. The wheel then just rubs and builds up
heat. The rate of grain release, or wheel breakdown, must therefore be
inversely proportional to the hardness of the material being ground. Whether
a wheel is 'hard' or 'soft' refers to how fast it breaks down and exposes
new grit and not to the actual hardness of the grit itself which is what
confuses people new to grinding.

A hard wheel breaks down slowly and a soft wheel breaks down fast. However
the harder the material being ground the harder the grit must also be. In
fact you can't effectively grind a material with a grit that is softer than
the material being ground. Silicon carbide grit is harder and has sharper
cutting edges than aluminium oxide grit so it is needed more on very hard
dense materials like tungsten carbide but it is also weaker and breaks down
quickly so perversely it's used on soft materials like non ferrous metals
and stone. On hard steels it can give a very good surface finish and is
sometimes used as a finishing wheel in a very fine grit rather than the more
commonly used aluminium oxide grit for general purpose grinding and
roughing.

I went into all this in a big way some years back when I was trying to find
a suitable replacement wheel for the original one on my old Black and Decker
valve refacer. It's a custom shaped dished 5" wheel that's no longer made so
to put it mildly you're pretty much f***ed for anything suitable off the
shelf. I even had a spare wheel when I bought the machine but not knowing
they were no longer made and how rare it was I made a mandrel to put it on
the mill for general grinding and doing something stupid one day I broke the
bloody thing so when the one on the valve refacer wore out I was screwed.

I made an adaptor for the valve refacer so it could take a straight 5" wheel
which then gave me some choice but nothing like what you'd have in a more
common 6" wheel. Of course everyone said I wanted aluminium oxide for
grinding steel. I tried all sorts of things. White aluminium oxide which
gives good stock removal without too much heat buildup but a poor surface
finish. A brownish wheel of a type I forget which was nigh on useless.
Pink/gray aluminium oxide which is the norm for steel but still tended to
chatter. I solved most of that with a finer grit, a new diamond and better
dressing techniques but never quite matched what the OE wheel would do. That
always used to give a mirror finish, never chattered and wasn't even that
fussy about how it was dressed. When I tried to duplicate its performance
with off the shelf wheels I became convinced it must have been made out of
something magical.

Eventually I discovered that the original wheels were actually a special
grade of silicon carbide although they were more blue than green. Happily
someone has now started making them again and I'll get one once my current
wheel is worn out but it does me for now.
Signature

Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

Dave Baker - 26 May 2008 22:35 GMT
>>> As for wheel grit types, there is as much debate here as the HSS vs
>>> Carbide debate. In general, a harder steel needs a softer wheel, and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> It's because ...........

Actually although grinding wheel choice can seem very much like a black art
there are some very similar analogies to other types of machining once you
understand the processes involved. A good example is picking a milling
cutter to suit the material being machined.

1) Material hardness. The harder this is the tougher the cutter needs to be.
In grinding terms the grit hardness of the common abrasives in ascending
order are Aluminium Oxide, Silicon Carbide, CBN (cubic boron nitride),
Diamond.

2) Tool life. Again directly related to material hardness, the tougher this
is the more often you're going to need to sharpen or replace the tooling.
Tough material = frequent sharpening = soft bond for a wheel that breaks
down quickly and exposes new grit edges.

3) Material that clogs the cutter such as aluminium. You want a milling
cutter with widely spaced teeth such as a two flute instead of multi flute
and in grinding you want a wheel with widely spaced grains of abrasive and
more porosity. Coolant/lubricant also make a similar improvement in both
cases to wash away the swarf and keep the tool clean.

4) Desired surface finish. The better this needs to be the finer the feed
and similarly the finer the grit. Again coolant always helps.

5) Stock removal. For high stock removal use deeper cuts and frequent
sharpening. In grinding use coarser grit and softer bonds.

In a way it's really quite straightforward if you think of a grinding wheel
as an abrasive cutting tool that's not so much different to a lathe tool or
a milling cutter.
Signature

Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines

 
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