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Model Forum / General / Models / November 2008Origin of Morse Tapers series
Please forgive me if this has been bashed out before, but I've been thinking again (Oh NO! they cried). For years I've wondered about the series of angles of the MT tapers. I thought the wierd spread of angles might have derived from some esoteric mathematical formula beyond my ken. Acting on the clue that they were originally based on a taper of 5/8" per foot (19.2 : 1) and with the help of Excel and dredging up some rusty trig functions, this results in taper angle of 1° 29' 26.630" Since the MTs all hover round this figure, was it decided by the Wise Men (& Ladies?) that because of its, by then, widespread adoption, to stay with the errors and eventually carry them forward for the ISO standards? Pehaps only the improvements in measuring instruments and machining processes since Steve Morse nutted it all out in the mid 1800s only later allowed the small but significant errors to be observed in the standard prototypes? BTW, my calculated angle rounded off is the given taper for MT0, which leads me to wonder whether MT0 was one of the original series, or (from the "0" designation) was it added post-Mr.Morse with the grteater accuracy then available? Or is there a "proper" reason for the series? In the meantime, I'll continue to machine my MTs by setting up against known store-bought tapers. JW² > Pehaps only the improvements in measuring instruments and > machining processes since Steve Morse nutted it all out in the mid 1800s > only later allowed the small but significant errors to be observed in the > standard prototypes? No idea about accuracy re Morse tapers but can relate a tale about something similar with the angles of the compound head on Huron milling machines. These machines were supplied with a table which gave the settings on the components of the head to achieve compound angles. The company had one machine retro fitted with NC controls and we wished to drill a hole at a compound angle without re-setting the job. Did the geometry and used a computer to calculate the settings. Compared with the supplied table to check and got answers which deviated more and more as extremes were reached. Turned out to be a limitation in the ability of the method used to calculate the original tables. Probably something like using 5 figure mathematical tables, as was common at the time. Have you ever seen 10 figure tables? - an enormous volume! Henry > > Pehaps only the improvements in measuring instruments and > > machining processes since Steve Morse nutted it all out in the mid 1800s [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Henry Oh, dear! Morse taper WAS simple. A sine bar is 10" and a No2 Morse Taper was nothing more than a side of 0.250" Since then, they couldn't get it right- and it is now a Standard based on a bad measurement. Try your trig with 10" as base Cheers Norman >A sine bar is 10" and a No2 Morse Taper was nothing more than a side >of 0.250" >Since then, they couldn't get it right- and it is now a Standard based >on a bad measurement. 'Fraid its a sine of the times... Regards, Tony > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:51:17 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Regards, > Tony Inspect a Morse- a new angle? >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:51:17 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Inspect a Morse- a new angle? Looks like that story Tapered off then. Dave. > >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:51:17 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Looks like that story Tapered off then. > Dave. One of my dexter-ous(?) friends - called Colin (ouch), actually re- published an old design from Model Engineer which was based on exactly what I mentioned. Colin wrote as Slangbela in YahooGroups MyMyford. I 'Endeavour-ed' to find out if the stuff is still there. Norman( another ouch?) >> 'Fraid its a sine of the times... >> >> Regards, >> Tony > >Inspect a Morse- a new angle? Only cos you mentioned it... Regards, Tony >>> 'Fraid its a sine of the times... >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Only cos you mentioned it... Why do these threads always go off at a tangent?  SignatureDave Baker > >>> 'Fraid its a sine of the times... > >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Why do these threads always go off at a tangent? Only if they're UNF co-axial with a spark plug <G> AWEM On 26 Nov, 18:32, "Andrew Mawson" <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> wrote: > > >>> 'Fraid its a sine of the times... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Show quoted text - With some reservation, I'd ask an Indian call centre. Could have a word with one of the squaws. > With some reservation, I'd ask an Indian call centre. Could have a >word with one of the squaws. Is this a tangential reference to the old joke about the "squaw on the hippopotamus..." etc.? > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:26:48 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Is this a tangential reference to the old joke about the "squaw on > the hippopotamus..." etc.? Haven't a clue- as usual, the line was snapped. What is a bloody hippo doing there? Hippocampus- could ring a bell Norm On 26 Nov, 22:35, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:26:48 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Is this a tangential reference to the old joke about the "squaw on > the hippopotamus..." etc.? Haven't a clue- as usual, the line was snapped. What is a bloody hippo doing there? Hippocampus- could ring a bell Norm No - that would be a campanologist surely ? AWEM >On 26 Nov, 22:35, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote: >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:26:48 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >No - that would be a campanologist surely ? I thought they were the people that liked to live under canvas. A hippocampus is presumably a hippo owned by a campanologist? Or is hippocampus a posh name for a hippo reserve? (Not that hippos seep to be terribly reserved, of course...) And who is Shirley? Regards, Tony > >"ravensworth2674" <norman@n-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Regards, > Tony Shirley rings my bells <G> AWEM > On 26 Nov, 22:35, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote: >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:26:48 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > No - that would be a campanologist surely ? Ohh, THAT rings a bell !!!! Dave > > On 26 Nov, 22:35, Tony Jeffree <t...@jeffree.co.uk> wrote: > >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:26:48 -0800 (PST), ravensworth2674 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ah! Campanile-- I'll have to sleep on that >> >> <nor...@n-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> > With some reservation, I'd ask an Indian call centre. Could have a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Ah! Campanile-- I'll have to sleep on that Thats the right Formule, but only if you go Premiere Class > >> >> <nor...@n-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> > With some reservation, I'd ask an Indian call centre. Could have a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thats the right Formule, but only if you go Premiere Class Is that the one with bells on? AWEM >> >> >> <nor...@n-atkinson.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> > With some reservation, I'd ask an Indian call centre. Could [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >AWEM More likely Belles in this context <G> Peter > On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:29:19 -0000, "Andrew Mawson" > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Peter Missed a bed? ( Sacre Coeur!) Reims of them!!!! >> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:29:19 -0000, "Andrew Mawson" >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Reims of them!!!! Especially around Laon...<g> >> Is this a tangential reference to the old joke about the "squaw on >> the hippopotamus..." etc.? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What is a bloody hippo doing there? >Hippocampus- could ring a bell Nah - it was the punchline to a (very old and very bad) joke - "...the squaw on the hippopotamus is equal to the sum of the squaws on the other two hides". I leave it as an exercise to the reader to retro-fit the rest of the "joke" - or not, as the case may be. Regards, Tony >> Pehaps only the improvements in measuring instruments and >> machining processes since Steve Morse nutted it all out in the mid 1800s [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >the time. >Have you ever seen 10 figure tables? - an enormous volume! I've got some 7-figure ones somewhere. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > >> Pehaps only the improvements in measuring instruments and > >> machining processes since Steve Morse nutted it all out in the mid 1800s [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Peter, Sounds vaguely Italian Funiculee- funicular. ( St Quentin for me-- but who is the guy with the cow's pat on his head?) Norm |
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