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Source of Extra Sticky Grease?

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mikecb1 - 19 Feb 2009 11:22 GMT
I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.

I asked the same question on this group a while back, and one
suggestion was Red n Tacky grease.  I managed to get some of this, and
it does stay in place better than the general purpose greases I'd
tried previously.  however, when running at high speed (above 1500
rpm) the grease still centrifuges off the gears and finds its way out
of the gearbox.  From here it coats the inside of the belt cover, and
eventually reaches the workshop wall....

I can find plenty of references to "coupling grease" which seems to be
the right sort of stuff, but where does one buy small quantities?
Most seem to come in huge drums.

Any help very much appreciated.

Mike
Dave Baker - 19 Feb 2009 11:49 GMT
> I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
> epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Any help very much appreciated.

Sounds like you want motorbike chain grease which you melt over a hob until
it's liquid, drop the chain in, shake the excess off and then it sets like
bloody concrete as it cools. Well not really but you get the gist. It's
designed to resist being flung off at high speed or it would just coat the
rider and everything around him. It comes in a tub about 12" in diameter and
3" high so you can fit a whole chain inside it. I have a partially used tub
which I bought many eons ago for my bike which I haven't ridden for 30 years
and I'm sure any motorbike shop would sell you the same for a small amount
of folding. When cold and hard it has about the consistency of paraffin wax
but heat it gently and it turns into liquid. It can be reheated and cooled
ad infinitum without losing its properties. For your application I guess
you'd heat it until it melts and brush it on quick seeing as you can hardly
drop the bits into the tub. Bloody good stuff and it extends the life of
motorbike chains many times over. It keeps the grit out and the
lubrificating goodness in.

Nothing you'll buy which goes on cold will do anything like the same service
because it's limited by its cold viscosity. This stuff is only limited by
its hot viscosity which is near as dammit like water. When it's set nothing
on god's earth will fling it off.

If you don't want much and if I can find the tub after 30 years I could
scrape some into a pot and send it to you. I have a hunch I know where it
might still be.
Signature

Dave Baker

Tim L - 19 Feb 2009 11:53 GMT
>> I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
>> epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>scrape some into a pot and send it to you. I have a hunch I know where it
>might still be.

It's available also in aerosol cans.
I made the mistake of using some on some filing cabinet drawer
runners, used for tool storage. It's so sticky that it's a struggle to
get the **** drawers opened!

Tim
mikecb1 - 19 Feb 2009 11:58 GMT
> > I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
> > epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dave

Sounds like a very good idea. In reality I only need about an eggcup
full, so if you were able to send me some I'd be very grateful.  More
than happy to pay any costs. If you can help, contact me off-group at
mike.crossfield [at] virgin .net

Cheers

Mike
Dave Baker - 19 Feb 2009 12:09 GMT
>> I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
>> epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> could scrape some into a pot and send it to you. I have a hunch I
> know where it might still be.

Had a good Google and it seems this stuff is hard to find nowadays.
Eventually turned up this.

http://www.twenga.co.uk/offer/5804/7464861286574288243.html

Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is appropriate I
guess because that's what it sets like.
Signature

Dave Baker

Nick Mueller - 19 Feb 2009 12:24 GMT
> Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is appropriate
> I guess because that's what it sets like.

Ah, but it's not that good. No it works, but has to be used in a different
way and only works perfect on chains. The one I have is from Castrol.
Heat it up until it is liquid, put the chain in and move it around, pull out
the chain and let drip off the excess grease.

Something much easier to use is motorcycle chain *spray* oil. It also is
much tackier.
Or for the cheapies: Chainsaw-oil. :-)

Nick
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mikecb1 - 19 Feb 2009 18:16 GMT
> > Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is appropriate
> > I guess because that's what it sets like.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> The lowcost-DRO:
> <http://www.yadro.de>

OK, so maybe the spray motorcycle chain grease is the stuff to try.
I'll enquire at the local motorcycle shop and see what they have
available.

Thanks

Mike
Dave Baker - 19 Feb 2009 18:57 GMT
>> Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is
>> appropriate I guess because that's what it sets like.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Heat it up until it is liquid, put the chain in and move it around,
> pull out the chain and let drip off the excess grease.

That's the whole point so that when it's hot and water thin it gets into all
the links and then sets hard inside them. Spray on stuff doesn't penetrate
like that. It just sits on the outside where it does bugger all good. If
anything it just attracts grit and turns it into grinding paste. You don't
want lubricant on the outside of summat - you want it on the inside.

> Something much easier to use is motorcycle chain *spray* oil. It also
> is much tackier.

Nonsense. The heatable stuff sets much harder than any spray on stuff. If
the spray on stuff was that hard it wouldn't spray. I put 50k miles on bikes
in my youth including two trips round Europe so I know what works on bike
chains and what doesn't.
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Dave Baker

Nick Mueller - 19 Feb 2009 19:29 GMT
> Nonsense. The heatable stuff sets much harder than any spray on stuff. If
> the spray on stuff was that hard it wouldn't spray. I put 50k miles on
> bikes in my youth including two trips round Europe so I know what works on
> bike chains and what doesn't.

Not a nonsense. You'll understand why and when (you are right):
The spray-on grease has a solvent in it that evaporates. So it *is* thick
and it *is* sticky. It is even sticky like hell but not as sticky as air
filter oil. :-)
The reason why you are -to some degree- right is, that you are an old
man. :-) The grease to boil the chains out in works perfect on
non-O-ring-chains and that's what it was designed for and that's why you
have to look for it in a verrrrry dark corner. But that is past.

Nick
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Peter Neill - 19 Feb 2009 21:28 GMT
>> Nonsense. The heatable stuff sets much harder than any spray on stuff. If
>> the spray on stuff was that hard it wouldn't spray. I put 50k miles on
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Nick

It's so sticky that most of it flys off the chain and lands on the
wheel rims, in which poistion it of course sticks so hard that you can
never get it off.
A real pain on nice polished or painted alloy rims.

I'm surprised at you Nick, you really should know better than using
that stuff on a modern motorcycle chain, it's strictly for the
non-enlightened. It works very well to attract and retain all the road
dust and grit, and forms a nice grinding paste for the chain.
A modern 'O' ring chain just needs a thorough external cleaning, and a
good wipe-over with a nice oily rag.

I remember Castrol 'Linklyfe' though, and stunk out my mums kitchen on
more than one occasion with that stuff in the past.

Peter
Nick Mueller - 20 Feb 2009 10:40 GMT
> I'm surprised at you Nick, you really should know better than using
> that stuff on a modern motorcycle chain,

Me too. <G>

> it's strictly for the non-enlightened.

But there's no fine print about that on the can. 8-]

> A modern 'O' ring chain just needs a thorough external cleaning, and a
> good wipe-over with a nice oily rag.

You are right. Somehow. But "modern" seems to include that whiny generation
that avoids the rain like Dracula avoids garlic. :-)

I've been Enduro and MotoCross racing. And I can only tell you, that normal
oil is completely off after 1/2 hour. In the evening (after an 4 hour
Enduro) the chain rattles. Not if you use that "non-enlightened" oil.
Especially if you do have a bunch of water passages.

We all agree how O-ring chains work and that any grease put on onto the
outside doesn't lubricate the inside.

Nick
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Dave Baker - 19 Feb 2009 19:43 GMT
>>> Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is
>>> appropriate I guess because that's what it sets like.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> 50k miles on bikes in my youth including two trips round Europe so I
> know what works on bike chains and what doesn't.

Jeez I've just remembered that on the second trip I actually took my huge
tub of chain wax with me despite all the other crap we had to carry and half
way round Europe I took the chain off and gave it another soaking with the
wax melted on our little camping gaz stove. I'm so anally retentive I used
to keep a log of how many notches on the rear swing arm the chain would wear
per thousand miles and I realised before we set off that it was touch and go
if it would last the several thousand miles we had planned to travel without
another greasing and I was too tight to buy a new chain before we left when
the old one still had some life left in it. I also used to log tyre wear and
fuel consumption too with careful records of how the mpg and driveability
changed if I moved the carb needles up or down a notch on the adjustment
notches they had built in to them. I'm a sad bastard. They were bloody good
days though. Fun and carefree unlike what we now live in courtesy of our
deranged government and its constant attack on our civil liberties.

I remember pulling up to the border checkpoint between somewhere (France or
Switzerland?) and Italy with the other two guys and this little hitler
(mussolini?) walked out of his hut and started asking for all our paperwork
which was deeply buried inside the strapped on luggage and a pain to get to.
"Oi mate" I said pointing to the union jack sticker on the back of the
suitcase strapped to my bike. "English blokes here".

"Ah Inglese" he smiled and waved us straight through.

Then there was the old woman in a print dress scrubbing the front steps of
her apartment in Paris when myself and Martin walked past in our Belstaffs
and motorbike boots. She spat on the ground and said "Bosch" in a voice
filled with venom. I suppose in 1978 it wasn't that long since the war had
ended and memories of the Nazi occupation were still fresh amongst the older
people there.
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Dave Baker

Nick Mueller - 19 Feb 2009 19:50 GMT
>  She spat on the ground and said "Bosch"

You should have answered: "No, Lucas!" :-))))

Thanks for the nice story!

Nick
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Steve R. - 21 Feb 2009 08:03 GMT
>>>> Seems to be called chain wax rather than chain grease which is
>>>> appropriate I guess because that's what it sets like.

<Snip>
> Then there was the old woman in a print dress scrubbing the front steps of
> her apartment in Paris when myself and Martin walked past in our Belstaffs
> and motorbike boots. She spat on the ground and said "Bosch" in a voice
> filled with venom. I suppose in 1978 it wasn't that long since the war had
> ended and memories of the Nazi occupation were still fresh amongst the
> older people there.

LOL, I don't think Belstaffs look much like a German uniform! Damned good
raingear though!

Steve R.
Allan Waterfall - 19 Feb 2009 20:32 GMT
IIRC the gearbox on the Dore Westbury uses an oil bath,mine does anyway
and I think I followed all the instructions when I built it.Also IIRC
the gearbox only comes into play when you use back gear.

A call or email to Ivan Law at MES would give you the correct answer.

Allan

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Allan Waterfall

mikecb1 - 20 Feb 2009 09:48 GMT
On Feb 19, 8:32 pm, Allan Waterfall <Allan.Waterfall.
3nv...@rcgroups.com> wrote:
> IIRC the gearbox on the Dore Westbury uses an oil bath,mine does anyway
> and I think I followed all the instructions when I built it.Also IIRC
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Allan Waterfall's Profile:http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=52672
> View this thread:http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1003828

Just for the record, the Mk1 Dore-Westbury gearbox uses spur gears
(Myford change gears actually) in a non-sealed housing.  They are very
rattly, even when the epicyclic gearing is not in use (believe me!).
To reduce the noise the recommendation from MES is to apply thick,
sticky grease, hence my original question.  The Mk2 machine is
different. It uses helical gears running in an enclosed oil to solve
the problem.

Mike
Nick Mueller - 20 Feb 2009 11:48 GMT
> To reduce the noise the recommendation from MES is to apply thick,
> sticky grease, hence my original question.

Believe it or not. I'm using spray-on chain oil for the motorcycle for
exactly that purpose.
That works great, and I can use up my collection of chain oil (that I always
got for free). Only disadvantage is, that you get damned dirty hands when
changing wheels. :-))

You can really use chain-saw oil. Maybe a neighbor has a bit for you to try
it by yourself.

Nick
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Allan Waterfall - 20 Feb 2009 11:52 GMT
mikecb1 Wrote:

> Just for the record, the Mk1 Dore-Westbury gearbox uses spur gears
> (Myford change gears actually) in a non-sealed housing.  They are very
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Mike

Ahhh.....that explains it,your original post didn't mention it was
Mk1

Alla

--
Allan Waterfal
Mark Rand - 19 Feb 2009 21:49 GMT
>Nonsense. The heatable stuff sets much harder than any spray on stuff. If
>the spray on stuff was that hard it wouldn't spray. I put 50k miles on bikes
>in my youth including two trips round Europe so I know what works on bike
>chains and what doesn't.

The spray on chain greases have quite a lot of solvent in them. They go on
thin and runny, then seriously thicken up. They also have tackifiers in them.

Used both over the years and they both work well on bike chains.

Mark Rand
RTFM
newshound - 19 Feb 2009 23:58 GMT
> I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
> epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Mike

I'd say don't get distracted by the bikers thread, interesting though it is
(and speaking as an ex biker myself). The thing which kills bike chains
is water, which I hope isn't your problem.

I've found Rocol Tuffgear lubes pretty good (check the web site)
mikecb1 - 20 Feb 2009 10:03 GMT
> > I am looking for a source of extra sticky grease.  This is for the
> > epicyclic gearbox on my Dore Westbury mill.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sounds like good stuff, but my experience of Rocol products is that
they are aimed at industrial users, and are priced accordingly.  Also
hard to source in small quantity.  If anyone can prove me wrong I'd be
delighted to hear from them.

Mike
Adrian Godwin - 20 Feb 2009 16:18 GMT
> Sounds like good stuff, but my experience of Rocol products is that
> they are aimed at industrial users, and are priced accordingly.  Also
> hard to source in small quantity.  If anyone can prove me wrong I'd be
> delighted to hear from them.
>
> Mike

I've got a tin of Rocol spray chain & drive oil, which I think is what
you're talking about. It's moly based and leaves a bubbly yellow-grey
slime on the surface. I think it's about 15 years old and apparently
cost £4.75 from Mackays of Cambridge.

I've also got a DW1 and it came with a tiny pot of the thickest oil
(but not grease) I ever saw. It's like cough mixture. I always thought
it was intended to stop those silly locking pins falling out, it's so
sticky. Not really enough of it to oil the gears, I wouldn't have thought.
But mine's got a belt guard so the flying oil is mostly caught.

-adrian
 
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