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Model Forum / General / Models / June 2009Un-welding
If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to part them? They are not continuous welds but this is 1/4" plate welded at to 90deg to each other. Cheers Peter (Sunny Trowbridge) On 29 June, 13:19, puffernutter <pe...@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> wrote: > If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an > angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Peter > (Sunny Trowbridge) gas axe? (AKA Oxy Acetelene) Dave > On 29 June, 13:19, puffernutter <pe...@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dave I should have added that I wanted to keep them in a good enough condition to re-use. These are in fact the frames of a locomotive that have been welded together, but I want to spread the gauge from 5" to 7.25" without re-inventing the wheel (or frames!) Cheers Peter >> On 29 June, 13:19, puffernutter <pe...@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Peter Is there access for a diamond slitting blade? Some of them are only 10-20 thou thick as I recall so you wouldn't lose much metal. Cliff Coggin. >> On 29 June, 13:19, puffernutter <pe...@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Peter With careful use of an OA cutting torch you can remove most of the weld with little or no damage to the frame plates. Once apart the weld remains can then be cleaned up. <snip> > I should have added that I wanted to keep them in a good enough > condition to re-use. These are in fact the frames of a locomotive that > have been welded together, but I want to spread the gauge from 5" to > 7.25" without re-inventing the wheel (or frames!) Is that possible, surely the 5" frames will be far to thin to use on 7.25, I've seen 3.5" frames opened up to 5" but never 5" to 7.25... But still to answer your problem, as the frame spreaders will be scrap might I suggest that you simply air-hack-saw them through the middle, once the frames are apart (and completely stripped) you'll have the clearance you need to get in with an angle grinder, milling head or what ever.  SignatureBBC = Biased Broadcasting Corporation... Time for the BBC tax to be repealed. Sorry, mail to this address goes unread. Please reply via group. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Sorry, mail to this address goes unread. > Please reply via group. This is actually a largely complete locomotive, so if the frames were substantial enough for 5", I don't see a problem with just spreading the gauge. I know it may seem daft to buy a 5" gauge locomotive and re-gauge it, but this is Garrat in 5" narrow gauge and it is a beast (nearly 9' long). Even in 7.25" it may look slightly small, but the bogies won;t look out of proportion and it's going to be one heck of a locomotive! Cheers Peter <snip> >> Is that possible, surely the 5" frames will be far to thin to use on >> 7.25, I've seen 3.5" frames opened up to 5" but never 5" to 7.25... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > bogies won;t look out of proportion and it's going to be one heck of a > locomotive! How are you going to control/fire it, oil/gas fired and RC? I hope you're not planing to ride on it, if so I really doubt that the frames, axles, springs are going to be strong enough to be used *safely* as a 'sit-on' design. I really do think that you need to really think this one through, whilst I can see no reason why superstructure, boiler and cylinders (even motion) shouldn't be re-used I'm sceptical about the aforementioned components. Do you even know what grades of steel/cast iron have been used, if you don't how can you calculate the revised stresses etc.? OTOH, if you were going to re frame the loco you already have a drilling/milling jig... Also, don't forget that the wheels are going to be scrap, or will need completely machining, a 5" gauge wheel will not have the correct tread and flange dimensions for use on 7.25 gauge - if left as they are and just re-gauged on new axles I would almost certainly bet that you will suffer repeated derailments. I'm not saying that what you are suggesting is not possible, just that it's not as simple as it first appears nor is it just a case of wider frame spacers and axles, especially if you plan to sit on the thing! SignatureBBC = Biased Broadcasting Corporation... Time for the BBC tax to be repealed. Sorry, mail to this address goes unread. Please reply via group. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > it's not as simple as it first appears nor is it just a case of wider > frame spacers and axles, especially if you plan to sit on the thing! This is 18" wide, over 8 1/2 feet long and weighs approaching half a ton! The original owner planned to sit on it, I really cannot see the problems! All I'm doing is spreading the gauge by about 50mm in all. Cheers Peter Can you get at them with a flexi drive in a dremmel with a small 1" di cutoff wheel or grinding bit or a small die grinder? Jaso -- jasonballam <snip> >> I'm not saying that what you are suggesting is not possible, just that >> it's not as simple as it first appears nor is it just a case of wider >> frame spacers and axles, especially if you plan to sit on the thing! > > This is 18" wide, over 8 1/2 feet long and weighs approaching half a ton! Irrelevant, to this discussion, we are talking about a different set of track/wheel standards to start with, this becomes vitally important if check rails or crossing Vee's (of points/diamond-crossings) need to be traversed. Then we have lateral and vertical movement of the axles, many 5" gauge tracks (if of the raised type) have quite generous radii, many 7.25 tracks can have relativity tight radii for the size of locos - I've seen well designed and built large (4-6-0 and 4-6-2) tender locos 7.25 locos simply fall off the track because such problems. What wheel arrangement are we talking here, 2-8-0-0-8-2? > The original owner planned to sit on it, I really cannot see the > problems! All I'm doing is spreading the gauge by about 50mm in all. Whilst all I'm saying is that you need to re-calculate all the design tolerances on the previously mentioned components (and probably the entire loco) *before* you start hacking the frames about etc, otherwise you might just end up with a half ton lump of iron that looks great but can't be run, worse still, half a ton of metal gathering dust under the bench because you can't go forward nor can you go back. I'm *not* saying that what you want to do is not possible, just that it might not be as simple as just widening the frames. SignatureBBC = Biased Broadcasting Corporation... Time for the BBC tax to be repealed. Sorry, mail to this address goes unread. Please reply via group. > <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I'm *not* saying that what you want to do is not possible, just that it > might not be as simple as just widening the frames. 0-4-0, 0-4-0. My minimum radius is 35'. The wheelbase is shorter than the 1/3 scale Hunslet I'm building at the moment. Maybe I'm being thick but I still don't see any major problems. We'll just have to see how it turn out! I'm a pedant at work and an empirical modeller in the evening (I've got to relax somehow!!) Cheers Peter > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Is that possible, surely the 5" frames will be far to thin to use on > 7.25, I've seen 3.5" frames opened up to 5" but never 5" to 7.25... As a matter of interest, what thickness are the current frames ? > But still to answer your problem, as the frame spreaders will be scrap > might I suggest that you simply air-hack-saw them through the middle, > once the frames are apart (and completely stripped) you'll have the > clearance you need to get in with an angle grinder, milling head or what > ever. That does sound like a plan, though you might need to completely undress them first which may not be trivial. SignatureBoo >If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an >angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Peter >(Sunny Trowbridge) We used to be able to buy cutting rods for an arc welder that removed the weld. Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK peterforbes@prepair.co.uk http://www.prepair.co.uk http://www.prepair.eu > If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an > angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to > part them? > > They are not continuous welds but this is 1/4" plate welded at to 90deg to > each other. A hack saw! > Cheers > > Peter > (Sunny Trowbridge) >> If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an >> angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Peter >> (Sunny Trowbridge) Biff im wif an ammer! preferably a BFH! Steve R. On 29 June, 13:19, puffernutter <pe...@nospampuffer-nutter.co.uk> wrote: > If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for an > angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of how to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Peter > (Sunny Trowbridge) would a shaper do it .. if you were carefully and made a tool to go right up to the edge .. may work.... don't know or you could put it on a horizontal mill with a large slitting saw. or you could put it in a compound saw with a metal cutting blade in it all the best.markj > If there are two pieces of steel joined by welding and no access for > an angle grinder, are there any sensible (and clean) suggestions of > how to part them? I'm surprised no-one has suggested the application of a Birmingham screwdriver. Chris SignatureChris Eilbeck > I'm surprised no-one has suggested the application of a Birmingham > screwdriver. > > Chris Or the "Glasgow Kiss", but then again that might damage the frames !!!! Wavey Dave |
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