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Model Forum / General / Railroads / March 2005



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Coach combinations

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Peter Tomlin - 26 Mar 2005 13:12 GMT
I'm building a model railway, which will be a two-track mainline and single
branchline, set "somewhere north", covering both Midland and Eastern Regions
and set in mid-50's to mid-60's.

Some of the through trains will be parcels/mail and also sleeper services.
I'd be grateful if anyone can give me an idea as to what sort of
combinations of coaches should I use, where I am limited to 8 coach train
lengths (with either steam or diesel haul)?

Thanks for your advise.
John Bishop - 27 Mar 2005 11:02 GMT
If you want real detail, Tony Wright has written an occasional series of
articles in British Railway Modelling on Eastern Region train
formations.  You can see the results on the layouts Charwelton (GCR) or
Stoke Bank (GNR).

If you are limited to eight carriage trains, will you concentrate on the
GCR or MR lines, which tended to run shorter trains than either the GNR
/ NER or the LNWR lines which tended to run 14+ carriages.

Give me a week or two and produce some notes on the MR side.

>I'm building a model railway, which will be a two-track mainline and single
>branchline, set "somewhere north", covering both Midland and Eastern Regions
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Thanks for your advise.

Signature

John Bishop

John Bishop - 30 Mar 2005 20:01 GMT
Here goes with a brief analysis of traffic services on the old Midland
Railway.  Note the named trains (Thames-Clyde, Waverley) could run to
more than 8 coaches.  They would be classically first class at the
London end, Catering, second class.

The Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield trains ran to about 8 coaches.  Mid 50s
would still be LMS stock but late 50s most would be replaced by Mark 1s.
But some LMS stock ("porthole" BSK and Restaurant cars) survived to mid
60s.  The LMS (and the certain other railway) used British Standard
gangways whereas Mark 1s followed the LNER and SR in adopting the
Pullman gangway.  This meant forward planning in coupling LMS and Mark 1
coaches so Midland trains tended to be less mixed than on the Great
Central or ECML.  Trains from London could enter either end of
Nottingham, so sets could be turned, so there was no logic in attempting
to keep first class at the London end.  A typical formation could be two
BSKs, two SKs and two CKs.  The catering set would comprise a first
class Restaurant car attached to a SO.  In say 1960 the Restaurant car
would probably be LMS, the SO and one of the BSKs possibly LMS, the rest
would be Mark 1s.

Note that BSOs were mainly used in excursion trains, rarely in "service"
trains.  But it is worth noting that north of the Thames an SK had 48
seats and a SO had 64 seats.  So a scenario could be that there isn't
enough first class accommodation on a service, so one of CKs is replaced
by an FK, resulting in the loss of 18 second class seats but 16 can be
recouped by replacing one of the SKs with a SO. This would result in two
BSKs, one FK, one CK, one SK, one SO plus the catering pair.

Local services retained the classic three coach set of two Brake second
flanking a composite.  All compartment stock, with some of the first
class accommodation possibly having access to toilets.  But there was
often a swinger, often an LMS SK of earlier vintage than "porthole"
stock.

Still need to find out about sleeper and parcels services.

>>I'm building a model railway, which will be a two-track mainline and single
>>branchline, set "somewhere north", covering both Midland and Eastern Regions
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>>Thanks for your advise.

Signature

John Bishop

Bevan Price - 28 Mar 2005 21:29 GMT
> I'm building a model railway, which will be a two-track mainline and single
> branchline, set "somewhere north", covering both Midland and Eastern Regions
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks for your advise.

An 8 coach express passenger train circa 1960 would probably
consist of something like 1x BSK (or BSO) at each end, 1 or
2x FK or FO, maybe a buffet or restaurant car, and remainder
consisting of SK, or SO, although you might have a CK
instead of a FK
(O = Open stock layout, K = side corridor, F = First, S =
Second or Standard, and C = Composite part 1st, part 2nd)

Some services might have one or more bogie parcels vans
attached, whilst some secondary services might have 4 wheel
vans attached to the rear. Most important trains mostly BR
Mark 1's by the early 1960's, but some LNER or LMS stock
still used on secondary services and reliefs.

Steam substitutions for failed diesel locos still occurred
up to 1968, so you have a wide choice of locos and coaches.

Non-corridor stock largely replaced by dmu's on suburban
services by the early 1960's, although the last survivors
continued until Kings Cross electrification in 1970's.

Bevan
Chris Wilson - 28 Mar 2005 21:41 GMT
>...

...
> (O = Open stock layout, K = side corridor, F = First, S =
> Second or Standard, and C = Composite part 1st, part 2nd)

I've often wondered, is there a list anywhere of all the above, generally I
can work it out but I still come across one or two combos that get me stuck.

Signature

All the best,

Chris Wilson

That's cwilson at britwar with a dot uk and dot co on the end. (Reply
address is blackholed)

http://www.the-dormouse.org - The Dormouse Line Model Railway - UPDATED

Bevan Price - 29 Mar 2005 18:51 GMT
> >...
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Chris Wilson

I don't know of an on-line version. I can think of the
following, in addition to the above.

RC = Restaurant Car
RB - Buffet Car
RMB = Miniature Buffet Car (smaller buffet area, more seats)

F = First class non corridor
S = Second (or Standard) class non corridor
T = Third class non-corridor, before it was reclassified as
second/standard.
BT = Third class /brake van non-corridor
C = First/Second composite, non-corridor
FL, TL, CL = As above, but with lavatory, usually accessible
from some, or all, of the compartments within that coach.
BG = Full brake - originally used for parcels with guards
compartment, but in later years often used only as a guards
van.
N.B. Some of these had internal corridors, but no through
gangway to adjacent coaches.
If I recall correctly, some of those with internal corridors
but no gangway had descriptions like SO(NG), but this may
just be a distorted memory from 40 years ago.

Using a combination of the above letters can describe most
types of passenger coach, so, for example, you could have
BCK - brake composite side-corridor.

Multiple unit variants are frequently prefixed by M (Power
or motor car), or
DT (Non-powered driving trailer)

Hope this helps.

Bevan
Chris Wilson - 29 Mar 2005 21:32 GMT
...
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bevan

It does thanks.

Signature

All the best,

Chris Wilson

That's cwilson at britwar with a dot uk and dot co on the end. (Reply
address is blackholed)

http://www.the-dormouse.org - The Dormouse Line Model Railway - UPDATED

 
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