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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2005Scotrail Push Pull Formations
I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried Mark 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan 47/7. Can anyone tell me if there was any set consist? The only thing I really need to know is how many CKs were in the train, and where they were. As I recall, the 47 was always at the Edinburgh end. On another note, did the locos every carry snowploughs? I can't recall it, but I fitted them anyway, if only because it improves the model and the body overhand and front gap on the bogie isn't so obvious.  SignatureRegards, James Christie "Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." > I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried Mark > 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan 47/7. > Can anyone tell me if there was any set consist? The only thing I really > need to know is how many CKs were in the train, and where they were. The way I remember it, the original MK III formation was DBSO - FO - SO - SO - SO -(SO?) - 47/7 The Loco was generally at the Glasgow End. Then, in the late 80's the FO was converted to a CO and still located at beside the DBSO, although I can't remember which way round the First Class section was located. A SO was removed at that time from the formation. When the sets went onto the ScotRail Express "Triangle" services, they occasionally became reversed. The MK II sets were similar in formation, with the FO located beside the DBSO. As > I recall, the 47 was always at the Edinburgh end. On another note, did the > locos every carry snowploughs? I can't recall it, but I fitted them > anyway, if only because it improves the model and the body overhand and > front gap on the bogie isn't so obvious. I think they did, but cant be 100% sure. And your correct, it does look better anyway. > > I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried Mark > > 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan 47/7. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The MK II sets were similar in formation, with the FO located beside the > DBSO. The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original Mk2 push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK 4SO. Peter >> > I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried > Mark [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK > 4SO. Can't comment too much on the 27's + Non-aircons, I was meaning the Mk II aircon sets formed latterly, to be honest. ISTR that the Mk II sets had a TSO(B) as well, with the buffet end positioned towards the FO. There were oddities throughout the era, with a Glasgow - Aberdeen set having a Mk III sleeper as part of the formation, plus the occasional Full Brake. On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:51 GMT someone who may be "Not Here" <NotHere@nottheireither.com> wrote this:- >Can't comment too much on the 27's + Non-aircons, I was meaning the Mk II >aircon sets formed latterly, to be honest. ISTR that the Mk II sets had a >TSO(B) as well, with the buffet end positioned towards the FO. Edinburgh - Glasgow trains were highly standardised. However, Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen trains were more varied. SignatureDavid Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000. > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:51 GMT someone who may be "Not Here" > <NotHere@nottheireither.com> wrote this:- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Edinburgh - Glasgow trains were highly standardised. However, > Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen trains were more varied. That's how I remember it too. The Aberdeen sets also included the 2 or 3 Mk II non air-con vehicles that were in Scotrail colours Mk III sets did venture to Aberdeen, but were mainly contained on the E&G. > The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original > Mk2 > push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK > 4SO. I thought one of the 27's was 'dead?' James H >> The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original >> Mk2 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >James H No. They worked in multiple. The coaches were through wired with the Blue Star system. This actually meant any loco with blue star could work, and indeed 37s were used on some test trains. By the way guys, thanks to everyone for all the replies. Most helpful. SignatureRegards, James Christie "Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." > > The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original > > Mk2 > > push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK > > 4SO. > > I thought one of the 27's was 'dead?' Dear me, no. The coaching stock had to be modded to provide MU cabling down the length of the train. See <http://www.traintesting.com/push-pull.htm> for instance. Sam On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:09:46 +0100 someone who may be "J Houston" <james@nowhere.co.uk> wrote this:- >> The original formation had 4SOs, plus an FO and a Mk2 DBSO. The original >> Mk2 >> push-pull sets (worked to'n'tail by two 27s, both powered) were BSO FK >> 4SO. > >I thought one of the 27's was 'dead?' The coaches were fitted with air pipes and control cables to allow the two locomotives to be controlled from one cab. They were also fitted with disc brakes, because of the intensive use and regular descents down the Cowlairs Incline. The locomotives were ISTR modified so that the fire detection system for the rear locomotive indicated in the leading cab. SignatureDavid Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000. > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:09:46 +0100 someone who may be "J Houston" > <james@nowhere.co.uk> wrote this:- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > modified so that the fire detection system for the rear locomotive > indicated in the leading cab. Wouldn't have thought so - the fire bell rings (or rather should do) in both locos via wire 22 which would be present without the need for any mods. No idea if the 27/1s and 27/2s had automatic fire extiguishers rather than the break glass and pull handle version. -- D5233 Email address is valid > Wouldn't have thought so - the fire bell rings (or rather should do) in > both locos via wire 22 which would be present without the need for any > mods. No idea if the 27/1s and 27/2s had automatic fire extiguishers > rather than the break glass and pull handle version. Was it a pull handle and steel cable on small Sulzers? I've always associatd that with EE designs. Isn't it a push button, electrically firing the CO2 bottles, as on a large Sulzer (Class 47)? If so, discharging the bottles on the distant loco becomes a trivial modification. >The Loco was generally at the Glasgow End. The loco was normally at the Edinburgh end, AIUI, due to there being no loco wheelslip indication provided in the DBSO. SignatureKenny On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:26 +0100 someone who may be Kenny <me@privacy.net> wrote this:- >The loco was normally at the Edinburgh end, AIUI, due to there being no >loco wheelslip indication provided in the DBSO. I have no idea about that, though it sounds entirely feasible. The other thing is that the guard had to be at the rear at Queen Street, in case the train needed assistance from the rear on the little hill. Thus the guards van of the 2x27 sets was at the Glasgow end and it was the same with their replacements. SignatureDavid Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000. > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:26 +0100 someone who may be Kenny > <me@privacy.net> wrote this:- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hill. Thus the guards van of the 2x27 sets was at the Glasgow end > and it was the same with their replacements. Indeed. I can clearly recall being pulled up the Cowlairs incline, rather than pushed. The set involved in the 1984 Falkirk crash was travelling DBSO-first towards Glasgow. John Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as John Walker <jwsc19078@blueyonder.co.uk> gently breathed: >> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:26 +0100 someone who may be Kenny >> <me@privacy.net> wrote this:- >>>The loco was normally at the Edinburgh end, AIUI, due to there being no >>>loco wheelslip indication provided in the DBSO. >> I have no idea about that, though it sounds entirely feasible. The >> other thing is that the guard had to be at the rear at Queen Street, >> in case the train needed assistance from the rear on the little >> hill. Thus the guards van of the 2x27 sets was at the Glasgow end >> and it was the same with their replacements. >Indeed. I can clearly recall being pulled up the Cowlairs incline, rather >than pushed. The set involved in the 1984 Falkirk crash was travelling >DBSO-first towards Glasgow. It was normal practice to have the 47/7 leading out of QS, but not unknown to occasionally see trains the other way round. The reason I heard for the normal practice was that there had been cases of buffer-lock and severed buffer heads when 47s pushed the trains out of QS, though I've no idea if this was true or not. Signature- Pyromancer Stormshadow. http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock! http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal! http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival. Could someone help me in defining periodwise a push pull class 27s period 1970 80 as thats the livery that I have on my 2 x class 27s I also need the transalions in normal joe blogg english of the abbreviations use for the rolling stock. DBSO - FO - SO - > SO - SO -(SO?) ETC cheers > Could someone help me in defining periodwise a push pull class 27s period > 1970 80 as thats the livery that I have on my 2 x class 27s [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DBSO - FO - SO - >> SO - SO -(SO?) ETC "ETC" is an abbreviation for "etcetera", which means "and so on". Does that help? Cheers, Steve > Could someone help me in defining periodwise a push pull class 27s period > 1970 80 as thats the livery that I have on my 2 x class 27s [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DBSO - FO - SO - >> SO - SO -(SO?) ETC DBSO - Driving Brake Standard Open SO - Standard Open FO - First Open -- > I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried > Mark 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fitted them anyway, if only because it improves the model and the > body overhand and front gap on the bogie isn't so obvious. Mk3 CK? Was there ever such a thing? I don't think any Mk3 had a side-corridor. SignatureBob > I don't think any Mk3 had a side-corridor. Except sleepers, and the DTF on the Mk3-derived Wessies. Peter > I've managed to get together and make up a fair few Scotrail liveried > Mark 3s, about 6 of the all told, plus a Mk2 DBSO, as well as a Heljan > 47/7. > Can anyone tell me if there was any set consist? The only thing I really > need to know is how many CKs were in the train, and where they were. One Mk3 CO (Composite Open), first class next to the DBSO, followed by 3 or sometimes 4 Mk3 TSO (Tourist Standard Open), then the loco. > As I recall, the 47 was always at the Edinburgh end. Usual formation was DBSO at the Glasgow end (for both Edinburgh and Aberdeen services). > On another note, did the locos every carry snowploughs? Sorry, but push-pull 47701-717 were never fitted with snowploughs. HTH. -- 156 Super Sprinter DMU http://dysgraphyk.madasafish.com/156/ hi there yes the class 47 was always at the edinburgh end (something to do with better control of the train up the steep incline from Queen Street) the trains were generally 5 Mark 3a coaches and a Mark 2 DBSO the Mark 3a next to the DBSO was always the composite coach with a section of fist class. there were also a couple of sets made up with Mark 2 stock mixed between older Mark 2a's and also air con Mark 2d/e coaches hope this information is helpful to you Bry Shaw x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion x-- Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD |
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