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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2005BR passenger coach classes.
Hi all, At what date did BR change 3rd class to 2nd class? Did BR stock ever have 3rd class written on their coaches? Mk1s? Regards, Greg.P. > At what date did BR change 3rd class to 2nd class? 1956 BR ceased to sell third class tickets. > Did BR stock ever have 3rd class written on their coaches? Mk1s? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ >> At what date did BR change 3rd class to 2nd class? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I don't believe BR ever had 3 or 2 painted on the doors, just 1.  SignatureMartin S. > I don't believe BR ever had 3 or 2 painted on the doors, just 1. Doh! Of course. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ >>>At what date did BR change 3rd class to 2nd class? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I don't believe BR ever had 3 or 2 painted on the doors, just 1. Wrong, while they never had 3 painted on the doors, 2 was only ever used on a small number of Open Seconds for boat trains on the Southern Region. There were only 15 of them numbered 3500-3514 and provided the only genuine 3 class trains on BR. They were discontinued as 2nd class in May 1956. Details from Keith Parkin's book on Mk1 coaches, which should be a must for anyone considering a model of a Mk1 coach. There is a photo of one on page 85. May 1956 was the date when 3rd class was abolished and effectively became 2nd class. Note that apart from these 15 boat seconds, no coaching stock needed any door numbers changed because there weren't any. A very straight forward and minimal cost change. :-) Regards Kevin Martin > Hi all, > > At what date did BR change 3rd class to 2nd class? Was there just one date on which 2nd class was abolished, leaving only 1st and 3rd, or was this phased in regionally or (if it goes back that far) by individual companies? SignatureBrian >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and 3rd, or was this phased in regionally or (if it goes back that far) by >individual companies? IIRC it was the Midland that started it, raising third class coaches to second class standards and abolishing the second class as a ticketing option. This leas was then followed by other companies, I believe the Big Four only ever had first and third but I could be wrong. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/00-apps/app-3.htm is all I have on coaching stock - It was the MR and it was in the early 1870s HTH Mike <snip> > This leas was then followed by other companies, I > believe the Big Four only ever had first and third but I could be > wrong. Unfortunately you are. The LNER had 2nd class on the ex GNR and ex GER suburban services until 1 Jan 1938 and built some 51ft 1 2nd class coaches to diags 55 & 204. 2nd class was also catered for in the quint sets built for the GER suburban services to Chingford and Enfield.The quad sets for both the ex GNR and ex GER services also had second class. Second class was also used on many boat train services. SignatureCheers for now, John from Harrow, Middx remove spamnocars to reply > >> Hi all, > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > believe the Big Four only ever had first and third but I could be > wrong. As I understand the situation, there was a law passed very early on in railways development (1840s or 50s perhaps) which forced railways to include 3rd class accommodation on some trains. Because of that law, when the various railways wanted to reduce the number of classes offered, they had to retain the "3rd class" designation and delete "2nd". > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/00-apps/app-3.htm is all I have on > coaching stock - It was the MR and it was in the early 1870s > > HTH > > Mike > As I understand the situation, there was a law passed very early on in railways > development (1840s or 50s perhaps) which forced railways to include 3rd class > accommodation on some trains. Because of that law, when the various railways > wanted to reduce the number of classes offered, they had to retain the "3rd > class" designation and delete "2nd". Exactly so. Gladstone's Bill, 7 and 8 Victoria C.85, included "...that each company be required to run over their line on each weekday at least one train conveying third-class passengers in carriages provided with seats and protected from the weather, at a speed of not less than twelve miles an hour, including stoppages, and at a fare not exceeding one penny a mile for adults, children under twelve half price, and under three free, 56 pounds of luggage to be allowed without charge." The Bill was enacted in 1844. At the time some railways didn't have a third class. This was part of an attempt by Gladstone to lay the foundation for the state buying up the railways, since even by that time they had ceased to be competitive and were attempting to develop monopolies, anathema to the spirit of the period. By accepting the above and many other clauses the companies put off the state's right to buy up companies from 12 years after opening to 22 years, by which time the whole shebang was so large that the threat was unaffordable. Ken. >> As I understand the situation, there was a law passed very early on in railways >> development (1840s or 50s perhaps) which forced railways to include 3rd class [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Ken. Would you chaps mind if I took this and put it on the Goods and Not So Goods site? Passenger stock is not something I know much about. As noted in the earlier post http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/00-apps/app-3.htm is all I have on the subject. Regards Mike |
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