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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2005Hornby see 'weakening consumer demand'
Nicked straight from Hornby's website: CHAIRMAN'S AGM STATEMENT 'Speaking at the Annual General Meeting of Hornby Plc, the models and collectibles Group, the Chairman Neil Johnson, will make the following statement. I am pleased to confirm that prospects for the Group remain encouraging. Good progress has been made in transferring production of the Lima ranges from Italy to China and we expect to see sales revenues from these ranges starting in the Autumn. Our marketing initiatives in Spain will have a positive effect on sales and profits this year and, Scalextric USA is also expected to deliver an improved performance compared to last year. In the UK however, we began to see some weakening of consumer demand during May. This trend has continued in June and July. However this is traditionally a quiet period for trading and it is therefore difficult to project future demand based on current experience. Our listings with our retail customers remain strong for the importan pre-Christmas period; based upon these listings and associated sales projections market expectations for the current financial year remain achievable. Further development of our recent international investments will, as planned, help to offset UK market fluctuations in future years.' The stockmarket has so far reacted with a 6% plunge in Hornby's share price. (as of 9.29am 22.7.05) Pete  Signaturehttp://www.bristol-rail.co.uk: railways around Bristol. http://www.bugpics.co.uk: DMU/EMU gallery. OUCH! Factory tours - competitions - awards for modelling excellence - advertising outside the traditional captive audiences, after all, we are the converted - creation of a schools program to encourage young hobbyists who want more from life than pressing buttons on vacuous computer games and SMSing their mates. I mean, I can see the ad now - beautifully photographed layouts displaying emotively a range of scenes reminiscent of the great films featuring trains - with the final caption ...... get real - get hornby. Stick it straight to those video arcade mind-numb'rs I could go on, but God knows I already have Happy modelling! Steve - returning hobbyist after 30+ years away from it :) Steve > Nicked straight from Hornby's website: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Pete > OUCH! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the great films featuring trains - with the final caption ...... get > real - get hornby. Stick it straight to those video arcade mind-numb'rs I thought they just tried all that and failed? If there is any money available, I would rather it was spent on developing new products than on gimmicks like advertising. One good new model will generate more free publicity than any amount of advertising. (kim) One good new model will generate more free > publicity than any amount of advertising. not to what any business needs to survive longterm new customers Steve > One good new model will generate more free >> publicity than any amount of advertising. > > not to what any business needs to survive longterm > > new customers You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new customers. If you offer a good product or service at a good price word soon gets around. (kim) > You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new customers. If > you offer a good product or service at a good price word soon gets around. > > (kim) That is a dangerous myth - perhaps it explains the state of much of British industry? Advertising and marketing go hand in hand. It is easy to waste advertising effort, that is why you have to carefully target your advertising. Eg. the products of CJM or Bassett-Lowke are not suitable for mass media advertising, whilst some Hornby products are. SignatureRichard Marsden Winwaed Software Technology, http://www.winwaed.com http://www.mapping-tools.com for MapPoint tools and add-ins >> You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new >> customers. If you offer a good product or service at a good price [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > advertising effort, that is why you have to carefully target your > advertising. I was always puzzled about the advert for Hornby Live Steam. They must have spent an awful lot of money on that. They even got Sean Bean to do the narration and I shouldn't think that he comes cheaply these days. Yet I only ever saw the advert on the Hornby website and an RM CD. I would have expected it to be shown on prime time telly. An ideal time would have been during a commercial break in a certain episode of Coronation Street, which featured Norris and Clur playing with a Live Steam set. It could have been a pretty good piece of product placement as Norris had some red and yellow Hornby boxes stacked on a chair behind him. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > > I would have expected it to be shown on prime time telly. An ideal time > would have been during a commercial break in a certain episode of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > red and yellow Hornby boxes stacked on a chair behind him. > Enzo It was actually shown in the middle break during the Pete Waterman railway series at the beginning of the year if I remember correctly. The viewers of that series were obviously the ones considered suitable targets. Dave W. > "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dave W. But surely the viewers of that program would already be aware of the Hornby offerings - possibly also owners of substantial numbers of hornby products! >> "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Hornby offerings - possibly also owners of substantial numbers of > hornby products! I would have thought so. Maybe the biggest moneyspinning option would be to produce a Live Steam Thomas or Hogwarts Express and to advertise it starting in August. The kids would be attracted to it because it had something to do with Thomas or Harry Potter, which the dads would possibly become fascinated by the technical aspects of it. There would be two birds killed with one stone. Youngsters to bring fresh blood to the hobby and new not-so-youngsters with a bit of disposable income. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >>> "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > >>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > bring fresh blood to the hobby and new not-so-youngsters with a bit > of disposable income. A live steam 0-6-0T??? Gordon, maybe... SignatureMartin S. >I would have thought so. Maybe the biggest moneyspinning option would be to >produce a Live Steam Thomas or Hogwarts Express and to advertise it starting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >stone. Youngsters to bring fresh blood to the hobby and new >not-so-youngsters with a bit of disposable income. That could be a bit difficult. Live steam products are advertised "for adults only". SignatureJane OO in the garden http://www.yddraiggoch.demon.co.uk/railway/railway.html >> It was actually shown in the middle break during the Pete Waterman >> railway series at the beginning of the year if I remember correctly. The >> viewers of that series were obviously the ones considered suitable >> targets. >> Dave W. > But surely the viewers of that program would already be aware of the > Hornby offerings - possibly also owners of substantial numbers of hornby > products! I would tend to disagree! Although there is some overlap of interest between model and prototype railways, many older "trainspotters" are unaware of what is available and the high quality of today's model products. Dave W. > "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > series at the beginning of the year if I remember correctly. The viewers > of that series were obviously the ones considered suitable targets. Not one of the adverts and press releases for Hornby's new 08 shunter made me want to buy one. Reading a critical review of it in this month's Model Rail did. (kim) and again, displaying a serious weakness in Hornby's thinking .... preaching to the converted. It's almost like they've given up! > "Enzo Matrix" <enzo55@hotmail.com> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dave W. >>> You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new >>> customers. If you offer a good product or service at a good price [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > placement as Norris had some red and yellow Hornby boxes stacked on > a chair behind him. Enzo is wearing his other anorak. ;-) SignatureMartin S. > I was always puzzled about the advert for Hornby Live Steam. They must > have > spent an awful lot of money on that. They even got Sean Bean to do the > narration and I shouldn't think that he comes cheaply these days. Yet I > only > ever saw the advert on the Hornby website and an RM CD. anyone know if the advert was played much in the US? I gather that was where many of the live steam sets were eventually sold to... (though my understanding could be wrong) > anyone know if the advert was played much in the US? I gather that was where > many of the live steam sets were eventually sold to... (though my > understanding could be wrong) I never saw it, but we disconnected the TV a couple of months ago. :-) When I subscribed to Model Railroader, Hornby usually had a full page advert most months. Richard (typing from the DFW Metroplex) SignatureRichard Marsden Winwaed Software Technology, http://www.winwaed.com http://www.mapping-tools.com for MapPoint tools and add-ins >You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new customers. If >you offer a good product or service at a good price word soon gets around. > >(kim) If that were true then we would all using Betamax videos not VHS i.e. superior technology V's better marketing SignatureNeil Kirby > You don't have to waste money on advertising to attract new customers. If > you offer a good product or service at a good price word soon gets around. > (kim) I believe that this is known as "viral" advertising! It seems to work well enough for a couple of telecom companies offering unlimited length calls for only a 2p or 3p connection fee. They never advertise by conventional methods and prove an exception to the usual warning of "if it seems too good to be true, etc." Dave W. let's try all that again Kim said > One good new model will generate more free publicity than any amount of > advertising. I respond: Free publicity where? In existing magazines, to existing customers. This will not achieve what every business needs to survive in the long term - I agree it's necessary to introduce more excellent products, but that has little impact on generating new customers. New customers are the lifeblood, especially within a rapidly ageing existing customer base - the only way to make a new market aware is through marketing efforts, including advertising. Finally, we all found out about our hobby through advertising in one form or other - it is a myth that making a great product is the thing that results in it getting sold. A "million" businesses/people have gone magnificently broke thinking their products sell themselves. Steve >> OUCH! >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > (kim) > New customers are the lifeblood, especially within a rapidly ageing > existing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve Hmm. I think you may be right about this. The current bulk of buyers of Hornby's (and Bachmann's) steam outline models seem to be on the older side (over 50). Give it another 20 years combined with economic ups and downs, and there won't be anything like the numbers that have been buying recently. There need to be new initiatives to attract new customers, and responses to what actually exists as a market going forward (witness the recent surge in models of post steam-era diesels). Hornby's virtual model railway is also a part of that. Kids and adults have so much to fill their leisure time with now that they have to be selective as to what they are going to spend that time on - and it's the things they really enjoy that will take most of that time, and don't get insulted for. It's a pity that model railways are seen by the 'general' public in UK and Europe as 'nerdish' - in the States I understand model railways are quite an acceptable hobby... Ian J. and once again - Hornby can hit the "nerdish" thing head-on by displaying a range of commercials that have 20's-30's aged folks talking about their highly regarded positions in industry/education/commerce etc, as engineers, pilots, surgeons, teachers, etc. attributing their advanced skills in their field to being given the opportunities as youngsters to fully develop their minds through Railway Modelling. I speak from personal experience here and can state that my electronics training in the military had it foundations solidly in Railway Modelling. I went away from that field and enjoyed successful careers in more than 6 other fields - due at least in part to trusting my creative abilities, again developed through Railway Modelling. If we list what we have learned through it, I think we would be reminded of the most wonderful times of our lives. (puts brand development guy hat on again) I can imagine a campaign that celebrates the vast skills we learn (largely SELF TAUGHT!!!) through Railway Modelling. Engineering Scale and proportion Accuracy in measurement ( bloody thing dunn fit!) Design History Attention to detail Electrical theory Golden friendships team building people management (muuuuuuuuuuum......daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, I really want that train!) Money management and .... well..... how to bloody-well make things! often from scratch. these rolled off my fingers in an instant - I know there are a million more, but just look at what we have been given! As a brand development person, I can see that this is a legacy worthy of handing on. But I am waffling again, but then it isn't 9 a.m. here yet. Coffee time! :) Cheers Steve >> New customers are the lifeblood, especially within a rapidly ageing >> existing [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Ian J. > New customers are the lifeblood, especially within a rapidly ageing > existing > customer base. Well Bachmann have made the first steps in that direction by producing models of TODAY's trains whereas Hornby seem almost to have forgotten that end of the market. Even their most recent diesels models (classes 08 and 31) are 1950s or earlier designs, whilst their class 50 model is a child of the 60s. Poor choices and abjectly poor quality when producing models of more recent prototypes (Networker, Eurostar and class 92) have resulted in poor nationwide sales. These decisions are far more fundamental than widespread advertising. If you don't produce what the 'new modeller' wants, or will not produce good quality products to satisfy that market then there's little point in advertsing aimed at it. John. >> OUCH! >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > than on gimmicks like advertising. One good new model will generate > more free publicity than any amount of advertising. In that case, I only have one thing to say. Claughton! ;-) SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >> "mindesign" <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote... >>> OUCH! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > In that case, I only have one thing to say. Claughton! ;-) Bister Christiad! SignatureMartin S. what's claughton? >>> OUCH! >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > In that case, I only have one thing to say. Claughton! ;-) > what's claughton? Not what but who! Try Googling 'Sir Gilbert Claughton'. The what is an LMS 4-6-0 tender loco, one of which (from memory) carried the 'Claughton' name. I believe two 'Claughton' class locos were rebuilt at 'Patriots'. John. >> what's claughton? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the 'Claughton' name. I believe two 'Claughton' class locos were rebuilt > at 'Patriots'. LNWR (kim) > LNWR Which became part of the LMS. John. >> LNWR > > Which became part of the LMS. It was an LNWR design as opposed to an MR, L&Y or LMS design. You might just as well say the 7F Super-D was an "LMS" 0-8-0 loco. (kim) >> LNWR > > Which became part of the LMS. Which became part of British Railways. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ >>> LNWR >> >> Which became part of the LMS. > > Which became part of British Railways. But all the Claughtons were gone by that time. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. "Enzo Matrix" >>>> LNWR >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But all the Claughtons were gone by that time. But were they missed? -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ > "Enzo Matrix" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > But were they missed? Not really, because they were replaced by Patriots, which were more capable. The early Patriots were *supposed* to be rebuilt Claughtons, but very little of the old engine went into the new ones - just the bogie and the wheel centres. In effect it was a scam to use money from a different budget to build the new engines. SignatureEnzo I wear the cheese. It does not wear me. >>>> LNWR >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >But all the Claughtons were gone by that time. Not quite. The last of the big-boiler rebuilds lasted until 1949 - just into BR ownership. I'd be surprised if they ever got BR livery or numbers, though. SignatureAndy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/ "Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas) > Not quite. The last of the big-boiler rebuilds lasted until > 1949 - just into BR ownership. I'd be surprised if they > ever got BR livery or numbers, though. From memory allocated 46604 but unsure whether it was ever carried. John. The message <dc0m7k$av9$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> from "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> contains these words: > > Not quite. The last of the big-boiler rebuilds lasted until > > 1949 - just into BR ownership. I'd be surprised if they > > ever got BR livery or numbers, though. > From memory allocated 46604 but unsure whether it was ever carried. 46004. It's listed in the 1948 Ian Allan combined. I've spent a short time looking for a photo showing the BR number, but so far without sucess. (Lots of photos of LMS 6004...) SignatureDave, Frodsham >The message <dc0m7k$av9$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> >from "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >sucess. >(Lots of photos of LMS 6004...) You won't find it. Essery & Jenkinson Vol 2 page 41 says it was withdrawn in LMS red livery and never received its BR number Tim The message <dpc9e1tsfulqkkhf9jj2qheca8v0475ri9@4ax.com> from Tim Illingworth <tim@bellhouse.org.uk> contains these words: > I've spent a short > >time looking for a photo showing the BR number, but so far without > >sucess. > >(Lots of photos of LMS 6004...) > You won't find it. Essery & Jenkinson Vol 2 page 41 says it was > withdrawn in LMS red livery and never received its BR number Thanks for that. I'll go and re-pack the bookcases. My copy of Essery and Jenkinson belongs to Widnes Library... SignatureDave, Frodsham The message <313030303337333342E4F2B490@zetnet.co.uk> from David Jackson <dijackson@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words: > The message <dpc9e1tsfulqkkhf9jj2qheca8v0475ri9@4ax.com> > from Tim Illingworth <tim@bellhouse.org.uk> contains these words: > > I've spent a short > > >time looking for a photo showing the BR number, but so far without > > >sucess. > > >(Lots of photos of LMS 6004...) > > You won't find it. Essery & Jenkinson Vol 2 page 41 says it was > > withdrawn in LMS red livery and never received its BR number > Thanks for that. I'll go and re-pack the bookcases. My copy of Essery > and Jenkinson belongs to Widnes Library... And Casserley & Asher say the same, scrapped in 1949. SignatureColin "mindesign" Wrote > Factory tours Steve G'day All, The trouble with Factory Visits is that the Factory is no longer a working Model Railway Factory. All of the Machines have gone and the place is now full of Lima, Rivarossi, Joueff & Arnold Moulds. And of course Old Triang & Triang Hornby Moulds. Graeme Hearn > "mindesign" Wrote >> Factory tours Steve [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > place is now full of Lima, Rivarossi, Joueff & Arnold Moulds. And of > course Old Triang & Triang Hornby Moulds. They could build an "interpretive centre" like the Guinness Storehouse in Dublin - no actual Guinness brewed here. SignatureMartin S. > They could build an "interpretive centre" like the Guinness Storehouse > in Dublin - no actual Guinness brewed here. > Martin S. That is exactly what had been planned at Margate following a proposed exchange of property with B&Q who would have taken over the under-utilised (at the time) factory and used it as a store. A product museum was also planned all to be built on nearby land. Despite a lot of local support, John Prescott scuppered the scheme by ruling that this was inappropriate use for the area. I think it was B&Q's retail use that was disapproved of rather than Hornby's proposed Heritage Centre. Dave W. in a world where McDonald's can take government to court and get the "restaurant" in a heritage listed area AND demolish a 19th century building to do so, I reckon a lobby group could've "assisted" this guy in understanding the benefits to the public good of this case. I don't have to try hard to imagine a petition of a million names, gently requesting consideration. >> They could build an "interpretive centre" like the Guinness Storehouse >> in Dublin - no actual Guinness brewed here. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dave W. there ya go! now we are getting somewhere..... Steve >> "mindesign" Wrote >>> Factory tours Steve [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > They could build an "interpretive centre" like the Guinness Storehouse > in Dublin - no actual Guinness brewed here. which factory? China still has a steam rail network I believe - I for one would enjoy travelling to Bachmann's plant, Hornby's plant and taking a trip or two on the 1:! scale babies. :) > "mindesign" Wrote >> Factory tours Steve [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > & Triang Hornby Moulds. > Graeme Hearn > OUCH! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Steve - returning hobbyist after 30+ years away from it Yeah - take a leaf out of Richard Branson's book. Virgin Trains ad a couple of years ago: "More Horny than Hornby" SignatureMartin S. interesting - I don't know the reference, though "More real than real" was used in Blade Runner as the slogan for the nexus series. I bet Ridley Scott was a Model Rail enthusiast - AND Dickie Branson heh heh Steve >> OUCH! >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Virgin Trains ad a couple of years ago: "More Horny than Hornby" |
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