MRE Mag
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John Ruddy - 21 Oct 2005 18:36 GMT Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? Normally if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the site, Pat will post a message the day before.
Mike Kerslake - 21 Oct 2005 20:31 GMT > Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? > Normally if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the site, Pat > will post a message the day before. I've checked a few times during the day and no update, so I guess it's not just you!
Hopefully back to normal soon!
 Signature Best wishes Mikey K LEBW
demodellers@blueyonder.co.uk - 22 Oct 2005 08:33 GMT > Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? Presumably a manufacturer has announced a ready-to-run 00 Blue Pullman, so there is no further need for MRE Mag?
-- Liar Neverland
Nibbod - 23 Oct 2005 11:13 GMT Logged on sunday morning and got "The page cannot be displayed"
> Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? > Normally if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the site, > Pat will post a message the day before. The Parkys - 23 Oct 2005 11:54 GMT Hi All MRE Mag Now updated for Friday I logged this morn Sunday 23rd all OK my end !!
All the best Steve
> Logged on sunday morning and got "The page cannot be displayed" > >> Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? Normally >> if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the site, Pat will post >> a message the day before. Nibbod - 27 Oct 2005 20:52 GMT Not working again, thursday circa 8.30pm
> Logged on sunday morning and got "The page cannot be displayed" > >> Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? >> Normally if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the >> site, Pat will post a message the day before. John Ruddy - 27 Oct 2005 22:22 GMT > Not working again, thursday circa 8.30pm Yes, getting a page not found error now. I look forward to reading the site, as it often provides news not available elsewhere, and reading peoples views are always interesting - even if I dont always agree with them! Isn't it funny how you only know how important something is until you miss it!
Edward Bray - 23 Oct 2005 12:16 GMT Hi All,
Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it if it is worth looking at? ta!
Eddie.
> Is it just me, or has there not been an update to MRE Mag today? Normally > if there is a day where an issue is not posted to the site, Pat will post > a message the day before. John Turner - 23 Oct 2005 12:19 GMT > Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it if > it is worth looking at? ta! http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/ and judge for yourself. I remember it's there when others mention it.
John.
Edward Bray - 23 Oct 2005 12:23 GMT Thanks John,
I've bookmarked it and will have a look later.
Eddie.
>> Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it if >> it is worth looking at? ta! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John. JMUpton2000 - 23 Oct 2005 23:28 GMT >> Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it if >> it is worth looking at? ta! > > http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/ and judge for yourself. I remember > it's there when others mention it. Lately it seems to have become the depositry for endless complaints from the flat earth brigade about web site design.
Frames, flash and java script are apparently the devil's sputum along with anything DCC....
Worth a laugh sometimes, occasionally there is even something useful on there. The motto there though is that Heljan are the devils little helpers and Bachmann can do no wrong!
Regards John M Upton
My Fotopic Collections: South Central/Southern, Model Railway & Other Rail Pictures: http://gallery39764.fotopic.net/
Bus Pics: http://gallery42239.fotopic.net/
My Online Novels: http://www.securitynovels.freeuk.com
Steve W - 24 Oct 2005 00:21 GMT >>> Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it >>> if it is worth looking at? ta! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > there. The motto there though is that Heljan are the devils little > helpers and Bachmann can do no wrong! I'm not following the above comment. Surely MREMag is no worse than any other forum, that is it depends entirely on whatever people feel like writing about, rather like this newsgroup. It seems to be well edited and without the rancour that mars many hobbyist forums. Therefore I don't understand why it attracts your contemptuous comments.
With regard to website doodads, some of MREMag's contributors don't like them, and some do. The editor has allowed those who wish to do so to express their views, then terminated the thread as being off-topic. Seems sensible to me.
As far as I can determine, and I have no axe to grind, Pat Hammond is hard working, fair, and sincere. He doesn't deserve this kind of unworthy trashing of his efforts.
Cheers, Steve
Rob Kemp - 24 Oct 2005 00:47 GMT > As far as I can determine, and I have no axe to grind, Pat Hammond is hard > working, fair, and sincere. He doesn't deserve this kind of unworthy > trashing of his efforts. > > Cheers, > Steve Seconded..... I read it daily except when I travel. Its nice to see a forum that stays on topic somewhat. Kind of an alternative to this one, although this is a daily read also, with much learnt and appreciated. As I live in the US of F&*(ing A, without these forums I would of been screwed. Thanks all Rob
Piemanlarger - 24 Oct 2005 07:40 GMT >>>> Excuse my ignorance but what is MRE? and can someone post a link to it >>>> if it is worth looking at? ta! [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > working, fair, and sincere. He doesn't deserve this kind of unworthy > trashing of his efforts. totally agree, its the best read of the day.
> Cheers, > Steve John Turner - 27 Oct 2005 23:52 GMT > http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/ and judge for yourself. I remember > it's there when others mention it. This is not intended to be critical of the site incidentally, I personally don't find it of much use because I get the same information directly from the manufacturers.
John.
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk - 28 Oct 2005 06:40 GMT > > http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/ and judge for yourself. I remember > > it's there when others mention it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > John. Yes, but isn't that the point of the site? You are in a 'priviledged' position, whereas us ordinary punters are not.
So, we go to Pat's site to get similar information, and also to let off steam, as it were, on a forum that is moderated and is like a magazine correspondence, except we dont have to wait a month or twp for replies, and it is free, apart from the cost of the internet connection.
The Parkys - 28 Oct 2005 19:10 GMT Hi All It's not only models on Pat Hammond's site. A recent announcement in MReMAG gives details on a new book published by Ian Allan that may be of interest to SOUTHERN readers "Locomotives in Detail 4 - Maunsell 4-6-0 King Arthur Class" Author: Peter Swift ISBN: 0711030863. this may be a prelude to Hornby bringing one out maybe John could tell us all seeing he is in the know and all that !!!!
:o)) :o))) All the best Steve.
>> http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/ and judge for yourself. I remember >> it's there when others mention it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > John. John Turner - 28 Oct 2005 20:07 GMT > It's not only models on Pat Hammond's site. A recent announcement in > MReMAG gives details on a new book [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > one out maybe John could tell us all seeing he is in the know and all that > !!!! :o)) :o))) I sincerely hope not! There's enough Southern stuff sitting unsold on my shelves as it is.
John.
John Ruddy - 28 Oct 2005 21:18 GMT >> It's not only models on Pat Hammond's site. A recent announcement in >> MReMAG gives details on a new book [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John. I hate to say it, John, but might that be down to the fact that you are in the north of England? Down here there certainly is plenty of call for more southern models!
John Turner - 28 Oct 2005 23:57 GMT > I hate to say it, John, but might that be down to the fact that you are in > the north of England? Down here there certainly is plenty of call for more > southern models! Oh I don't doubt that at all, although we do have a steady sale for items of GWR origin. I was, however, once informed that something like 75% of UK model railway sales was to people living to the north of London.
John.
Steve W - 29 Oct 2005 01:10 GMT >> I hate to say it, John, but might that be down to the fact that you are >> in the north of England? Down here there certainly is plenty of call for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John. You mean there are actually people living to the north of London? How very quaint!
Cheers, Steve
The Parkys - 29 Oct 2005 01:43 GMT Hi John Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! they say past Watford it is just a wasteland of brush and scrub???
PS What about this King Arthur 4 -6- 0 from Hornby ?
Sorry :o))) All the best Steve.
>> I hate to say it, John, but might that be down to the fact that you are >> in the north of England? Down here there certainly is plenty of call for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John. John Turner - 29 Oct 2005 10:19 GMT > Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! they > say past Watford it is just a wasteland of brush and scrub??? Clearly a man of little knowledge <vbg> everyone surely knows that life exists north of Watford - even those erstwhile London footballers from Wimbledon FC moved their home ground to Milton Keynes, which even this Yorkshireman knows is north of Watford.
John.
paul_afrancis@hotmail.com - 29 Oct 2005 11:09 GMT > Clearly a man of little knowledge <vbg> everyone surely knows that life > exists north of Watford - even those erstwhile London footballers from > Wimbledon FC moved their home ground to Milton Keynes, which even this > Yorkshireman knows is north of Watford. > > John. Poor old John always takes the bait! Anyway - why don't you advertise all those Southern models you've got sitting on the shelf? If the prices are competitive enough I'm sure you could shift them pretty quickly. I've looked at your website and there's no mention of them. Regards, Paul.
John Turner - 29 Oct 2005 11:48 GMT > Poor old John always takes the bait! Only because I want to! ;-)
Didn't you notice the <vbg>!!!
> Anyway - why don't you advertise all those Southern models you've got > sitting on the shelf? If the prices are competitive enough I'm sure you > could shift them pretty quickly. I've looked at your website and there's > no mention of them. Because I guess I'm not desperate to sell them. I've never gone out of my way to sell specific items of new stock, and if the need ever arises they can always go on eBay.
John.
Steve W - 29 Oct 2005 11:37 GMT >> Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! >> they say past Watford it is just a wasteland of brush and scrub??? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John. Well, you won't be surprised to learn that down here in sunny Wimbledon, any mention of those erstwhile footballers will provoke a furious response, accompanied by much spitting on the floor.
Fortunately, we now have Wimbledon AFC, who are working their way to the top, so who knows, 14th May 1988 may happen again in my lifetime!
Cheers, Steve
The Parkys - 29 Oct 2005 14:30 GMT Hi John
You still have not answered my P.S . What about this King Arthur 4 -6- 0 and M7 0-4-4 from Hornby that I have been told about in good faith.( No names no pack drill) And if there is no call for Southern stuff why have we heard about Bachman doing an unrefubished 4-CEP Hornby will do a 4-CIG, not sure on if it refubished or not Replica will do a BR design 4-EPB. and MLV.
From a man of (little knowledge) South of the Thames Weybridge Surrey yes the "POSH" part !!! All the best Steve Parkinson. P.A. C.D.M. d:o)
>> Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! >> they say past Watford it is just a wasteland of brush and scrub??? John Turner - 29 Oct 2005 16:40 GMT > You still have not answered my P.S > . [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hornby will do a 4-CIG, not sure on if it refubished or not > Replica will do a BR design 4-EPB. and MLV. It's easy to promise, let's see what the reality is. You seem to have more information than me, so why ask?
John.
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk - 29 Oct 2005 13:50 GMT > Hi John > Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! they > say past Watford it is just a wasteland of brush and scrub??? Good heavens! How ancient is your map?
Surely by now they must have ones that show everywhere north of Watford is covered in mills with chimneys belching out black smoke, row upon row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by stranged stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes?
The Parkys - 29 Oct 2005 15:21 GMT Hi I have also heard tell from my Father (G.r.h.s.) that a chap that he knew went past "Watford" once and that every front room in there tiny "two up two down" houses have these long tin things called Ferrets that catch Rabbits so they can cook them in BIG pots over open fires to feed there hundreds of children each house has. The chap my Father knew said the man he spoke to was a man by the name L.S.Lowry and all he would do all day was sketch and draw things of the sad life up there !!
He brought a picture from him and yes you are correct !!!
It is covered in mills with chimneys belching out black smoke, row upon row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by strange stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes? (Singing Match stick Men and match Cats and Dogs)
All the best Steve ( :o)) )
(Joke)
>> Hi John >> Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by > stranged stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes? David Jackson - 29 Oct 2005 16:29 GMT The message <AzL8f.6651$iZ4.232@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net> from "The Parkys" <lswr.railway@ntlworld.com> contains these words:
> He brought a picture from him and yes you are correct !!!
> It is covered in mills with chimneys belching out black smoke, row upon > row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by > strange stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes? Something I've always wondered... When you buy a new suit, or your missus gets a new dress, how long does it take you to stitch those buttons all over it? Or do you buy clothes with the buttons already stitched on?
I've seen pictures of *south* of Watford, and I've always wondered why you go to all the trouble. Do the buttons help to keep the jellied eel juice off your suit when you're having your breakfast?
 Signature Dave, Frodsham
John Turner - 29 Oct 2005 16:42 GMT > Something I've always wondered... When you buy a new suit, or your > missus gets a new dress, how long does it take you to stitch those > buttons all over it? Or do you buy clothes with the buttons already > stitched on? I think it's as a result of an inferiority complex - southerners need bright & shiny - they equate it to value.
John.
Steve W - 29 Oct 2005 21:59 GMT >> Something I've always wondered... When you buy a new suit, or your >> missus gets a new dress, how long does it take you to stitch those [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John. Hey, if that's what we're wearing down here right now, that just means you lot up North will be wearing it in about one and a half years from now....
A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, Hornsea to be precise, I was on a long secondment after upsetting someone important in my London office...
Thank God for the wonderful trawlermen's wives of Hull is all I can say!
Cheers, Steve
David Jackson - 29 Oct 2005 22:41 GMT The message <4363e2bc$0$15037$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> from "Steve W" <deadend@webhostingplus2.com> contains these words:
> Hey, if that's what we're wearing down here right now, that just means you > lot up North will be wearing it in about one and a half years from now.... Nah! We don't need clothes parcels. Anyroad th'shine on me clogs 'ud mek pearly buttons look dull. <g>
 Signature Dave, Frodsham
John Turner - 30 Oct 2005 00:40 GMT > Hey, if that's what we're wearing down here right now, that just means you > lot up North will be wearing it in about one and a half years from now.... Not a chance the pearly queens of London with the shiny garb can stay right where they are; we've enough queer folk here without more.
> A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, Hornsea to be precise, I was on a > long secondment after upsetting someone important in my London office... Gosh, even people from 'ull don't dare venture as far east as 'ornsea.
> Thank God for the wonderful trawlermen's wives of Hull is all I can say! I'm told penicillin works wonders these days! ;-)
John.
MartinS - 30 Oct 2005 06:21 GMT > "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thank God for the wonderful trawlermen's wives of Hull is all I can > say! Ah, Hornsea. Origin of the phrase "The Last Resort".
 Signature Martin S.
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk - 30 Oct 2005 10:45 GMT > A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, Hornsea to be precise, I was on a > long secondment after upsetting someone important in my London office... > > Cheers, > Steve I'm assuming there is a typo in there, and you really mean Hornsey. I cant imagine any self-respecting Londoner going as far as Hornsea and surviving ;-)
Steve W - 30 Oct 2005 12:06 GMT >> A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, Hornsea to be precise, I was on a >> long secondment after upsetting someone important in my London office... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cant imagine any self-respecting Londoner going as far as Hornsea and > surviving ;-) That's what I thought when the memo landed on my desk...
I was OK when I arrived at Kings X and got on the train... Hmmm, I thought, restaurant service to Hornsey, can't be bad..
Next thing I knew, we were at Doncaster, and I checked my A-Z of London, and there was *no such place* in the whole of London. That's when the panic set in..
We rattled past Goole.. a name to conjure with.. past the encamped loonie who furiously gesticulated at all the trains.. and eventually reached Hull, which I thought was the bottom of a boat.
I surveyed the terrifying alien landscape.. decided to phone the office and explain that there had been a terrible mistake... couldn't find a phone box anywhere (no-one had told me the phone boxes were green (?) in Hull!)... and just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I found myself on a bus, for Gawd's sake, doing the two-hour trip from Hull to Hornsea via Goathland...
I have to stop now, my blood is running cold just thinking about over 30 years later!
Cheers, Steve
John Turner - 30 Oct 2005 14:08 GMT > I surveyed the terrifying alien landscape.. decided to phone the office > and explain that there had been a terrible mistake... couldn't find a > phone box anywhere (no-one had told me the phone boxes were green (?) in > Hull!)... and Cream actually, but I know you southerners have trouble with colours, unless they're shiny and attached to pearly outfits.
> just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I found myself on a bus, > for Gawd's sake, doing the two-hour trip from Hull to Hornsea via > Goathland... Now you're really taking the urine - 'ull to 'ornsea via Goathland? Gerraway wi' yer.
John.
Steve W - 30 Oct 2005 14:35 GMT >> I surveyed the terrifying alien landscape.. decided to phone the office >> and explain that there had been a terrible mistake... couldn't find a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Cream actually, but I know you southerners have trouble with colours, > unless they're shiny and attached to pearly outfits. Cream or green, but not *red*. We have absolutely no problems with colours. Buses are red, trains are red (unless they go to the seaside, in which case they are green), pillar boxes are red, phone boxes are red, fire engines are red. Red. And more red. Now, that's what we call a colour.
>> just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I found myself on a bus, >> for Gawd's sake, doing the two-hour trip from Hull to Hornsea via >> Goathland... > > Now you're really taking the urine - 'ull to 'ornsea via Goathland? > Gerraway wi' yer. Silly me, of course it wasn't Goathland, it was Sproatley. Or was it Swine? The horror, the horror.....
Cheers, Steve
John Turner - 30 Oct 2005 15:44 GMT > Silly me, of course it wasn't Goathland, it was Sproatley. Or was it > Swine? The horror, the horror..... It was probably both - pig of a journey really. ;-)
John.
John Lancaster - 30 Oct 2005 20:18 GMT >>> I surveyed the terrifying alien landscape.. decided to phone the office >>> and explain that there had been a terrible mistake... couldn't find a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > fire engines are red. Red. And more red. Now, that's what we call a > colour. No problem with colours?! Any colour as long as it's red!!! ;o)
Cheers, John.
Steve W - 30 Oct 2005 21:26 GMT >>>> I surveyed the terrifying alien landscape.. decided to phone the office >>>> and explain that there had been a terrible mistake... couldn't find a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > No problem with colours?! Any colour as long as it's red!!! ;o) Absolutely spot on, squire! McDonalds is red, Tramlink is red... and then there was the greatest beer in the whole of human history, yup, Watney's Red, fresh from the Mortlake Megakeggery.
Cheers, Steve
John Turner - 31 Oct 2005 01:06 GMT > Absolutely spot on, squire! McDonalds is red, Tramlink is red... and then > there was the greatest beer in the whole of human history, yup, Watney's > Red, fresh from the Mortlake Megakeggery. Watney's Red ? That wasn't a beer it was a fizzy keg thing featured in TV adverts cause it wouldn't sell otherwise.
John.
Steve W - 31 Oct 2005 02:13 GMT >> Absolutely spot on, squire! McDonalds is red, Tramlink is red... and then >> there was the greatest beer in the whole of human history, yup, Watney's >> Red, fresh from the Mortlake Megakeggery. > > Watney's Red ? That wasn't a beer it was a fizzy keg thing featured in TV > adverts cause it wouldn't sell otherwise. Err, I rather think I knew that, John!
Its sole virtue was that it travelled well, that is to say it tasted just as vile at the other end of a delivery as when it left the Megakeggery chemical factory in Mortlake.
Cheers, Steve
Rob Kemp - 31 Oct 2005 03:29 GMT > Its sole virtue was that it travelled well, that is to say it tasted just > as vile at the other end of a delivery as when it left the Megakeggery > chemical factory in Mortlake. Must of been where Budweiser got their recipe from then Rob
Edward Bray - 31 Oct 2005 09:37 GMT American or Czech?
I love the American fizzy pop called Bud, not too keen on the Czech original, too close to proper beer for my liking.
Eddie.
>> Its sole virtue was that it travelled well, that is to say it tasted just >> as vile at the other end of a delivery as when it left the Megakeggery >> chemical factory in Mortlake. > > Must of been where Budweiser got their recipe from then > Rob Bruce Fletcher - 29 Oct 2005 17:04 GMT >>Hi John >>Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by > stranged stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes? I'm quite a bit north of Watford but there are no mills, chimneys, smoke (black or otherwise), terraced houses nor wooden shoes. Admittedly there are still a few outside toilets but only as "backup" to the toilet indoors. No railways either <g>
 Signature Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney, UK <http://www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> <http://www.caytonwitheastfield.co.uk>
Jim Guthrie - 29 Oct 2005 21:26 GMT >I'm quite a bit north of Watford but there are no mills, chimneys, smoke >(black or otherwise), terraced houses nor wooden shoes. Admittedly >there are still a few outside toilets but only as "backup" to the toilet >indoors. >No railways either <g> But you've got Highland Park :-)
Jim.
David Costigan - 29 Oct 2005 20:31 GMT > > Hi John > > Would that be "Watford" as my maps don't go any further than that !!! they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > row of tiny terraced houses with outside toilets, and populated by > stranged stooped figures in flat caps wearing some kind of wooden shoes? Ah, clearly you have been watching that well known ITV programme "Every Southerners Guide to North of Watford" - more commonly known as "Coronation Street". After all, it must be true - it's in colour.
(Slightly tongue in cheek, but as a northerner living in the south I have actually been told that it has been seen on Corrie, therefore it must be true!)
David Costigan
MartinS - 29 Oct 2005 20:49 GMT > <crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > have actually been told that it has been seen on Corrie, therefore it > must be true!) Enzo has some fantasies about that. ;-)
On a recent visit to Greater Manchester, I saw many rows of Coronation Street type terrace houses. Most of them were empty and boarded up waiting for the wreckers and redevelopers. Many have been damaged by subsidence caused by the (now abandoned) coal mines beneath Manchester.
 Signature Martin S.
Graeme Hearn - 24 Oct 2005 00:59 GMT G'day All, How can you blame Pat for allowing Free Speech. This is one of our last remaining values. Pat Hammond has a love & enthusiasm for Model Trains that most of us wish that had. Pat has done the collecting side of this hobby, a great service through his Editorship of the now defunct Magazine then his series of Books of Triang & Hornby and also the eMagazine. From an Aussie, Keep up the Good Work Pat. Please. Thank You Graeme Hearn Phone 61 2 69 203 726 ironhorse2@bigpond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/ironhorse2/
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve W" <deadend@webhostingplus2.com> Newsgroups: uk.rec.models.rail Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 9:21 AM Subject: Re: MRE Mag
>>> "Edward Bray" wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Cheers, > Steve
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