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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2007Wheel depth on older models.
Firstly, thanks to all for their input on my first posting here, it was a great deal of help. As I'm starting out with nothing, and have limited funds, I have been doing a fair bit of looking on eBay (but have spotted the over-priced parts, that can be got just as cheap in stores). Anyway, my kit is gradually building up for my rather ambitious plan for a double layer layout. The Princess Elizabeth 4-6-2 I ordered has now arrived, and it does need a bit of sprucing up, but seems in fair order. It does at least work anyway. However, I have had some bother with this loco, in that it only runs very sporadically, and has poor traction. The little Caledonian 0-4-0 I got with my starter kit runs very well though, and there are no dead spots on the track when running it. I also noticed the 4-6-2 was jumping a little going over the points. Further investigation finds that the wheels are deeper in the groove than the newer model, and are fouling on the guides in the latest points. Of course it is an old Tri-ang model. I also find that it does rub on the sleepers in the track too, which happens on the new track, as well as some older stuff I got. I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a newer model.  SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> > I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for > later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a > newer model. Yep you are, much the easiest is a newer model > > I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for > > later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a > > newer model. > > Yep you are, much the easiest is a newer model I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this one. Cheers. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >> > I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for >> > later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Cheers. It depends, it would be a good exercise in wheel changing, as if you buggered it up, it was only a £10 model you have broken, and it could sit static in a siding somewhere as colour. But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine models in there own right. > > I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to > > replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this one. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > buggered it up, it was only a £10 model you have broken, and it could sit > static in a siding somewhere as colour. Well, if it comes to it, I might even try taking them down a bit, it's only the flanges that are too deep. > But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine models in > there own right. Yes, looks like it's going to be the way to go. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >> > I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to >> > replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Well, if it comes to it, I might even try taking them down a bit, it's > only the flanges that are too deep. I think you'll find the flat bits that rest on the rails are a bit too wide as well? (kim) >>> > I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to >>> > replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I think you'll find the flat bits that rest on the rails are a bit too wide >as well? That would ceratinly give a back-to-back distance the points wouldn't like. >(kim) > >> > I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to > >> > replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I think you'll find the flat bits that rest on the rails are a bit too wide > as well? OK, fair enough. I'm going to rest this one up in a siding for now. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >>> I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to >>> replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this one. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Well, if it comes to it, I might even try taking them down a bit, it's > only the flanges that are too deep. You will find that the back-to-back measurement of the wheelsets will also be off, probably enough to impair smooth running through the points. The key dimensions are at the frog, where the check rails prevent the wheels from going up the wrong side. Wheel and track dimensions must be adapted to each other for smooth running. But don't let this deter you. It's worth a try. If you are using code 100 Peco universal points, the engine will likely negotiate the points well enough, albeit not perfectly. >> But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine models in >> there own right. > > Yes, looks like it's going to be the way to go. Just keep in mind that after the initial expenses, model railways are cheaper than smoking, healthier, less likely to cause wrinkling of the nose by your nearest and dearest, and you have something to show for your money. ;-) SignatureWolf 'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.' > > Well, if it comes to it, I might even try taking them down a bit, it's > > only the flanges that are too deep. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 100 Peco universal points, the engine will likely negotiate the points > well enough, albeit not perfectly. Well, I gather a new engine is cheaper than replacing all my points! Oh well, it's my birthday soon ;-) > >> But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine models in > >> there own right. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nose by your nearest and dearest, and you have something to show for > your money. ;-) Indeed, it was actually a toss up between the track and a tropical fish tank (again). I hoped the track would be cheaper in the long run (maybe!). SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> > Oh well, it's my birthday soon ;-) Be careful what you get. Consider modern big engines (4-6-0 and greater) will not run on 1st radius track. So find out about track geometry first - peco catalog one of best sources of basic info. Then when you chose your engine consider the period, geographical area and hence livery you are most interested in. Otherwise you may be sitting there in years to come with a very nice flying scotsman in BR green with late crest next to a much nicer LMS red Princess and Duchess. Although of course its your layout, run whatever ! >> >> But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine >> >> models in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tank (again). I hoped the track would be cheaper in the long run > (maybe!). Nope, but you can buy and build and do lots of things over many many years and have lots of fun doing it as well as learning about the hobby. Cheers, Simon > > Oh well, it's my birthday soon ;-) > > > Be careful what you get. Consider modern big engines (4-6-0 and greater) > will not run on 1st radius track. So find out about track geometry first - > peco catalog one of best sources of basic info. Yes, I had spotted that one, my layout does allow for a couple of runs of larger radius. I plan to run the 0-4-0 on the inner track. I have even added a siding off the outer loop as well. > Then when you chose your engine consider the period, geographical area and > hence livery you are most interested in. Otherwise you may be sitting there > in years to come with a very nice flying scotsman in BR green with late > crest next to a much nicer LMS red Princess and Duchess. > Although of course its your layout, run whatever ! Yes, I was looking to go for mostly pre-war models, and as you mention, possibly a set of LMS locos. However, my aim is to stick with steam, as this is what I am most interested in. The track is fictional, so I might even just make it a 'preserved line' layout, where a mixture won't hurt. > >> >> But if you want to get up and running, the new Hornbys, are fine > >> >> models in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Nope, but you can buy and build and do lots of things over many many years > and have lots of fun doing it as well as learning about the hobby. Aye, that's the plan, and I'm sure I'll make plenty more mistakes too ;-) SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >>> I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for >>> later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheers. IMO, No. For one thing AFAIK there aren't any cheap, drop-in conversion wheels. There is an outfit whose name I forget (I found it by googling) from whom I bought custom turned replacement wheels for a Lima GWR diesel car. RP25 profile, very nice, but they cost more than the model. Also, they showed up the poor motor, which is the next item on the list. It's never ending, like maintaining your house and garden. ;-) Also, the Triang model is not up to modern standards in running gear, mechanism, or body detail. If you like it (presumably is has some pleasant associations for you), make a small display case, and put it up on the mantel or the wall. Buddy of mine made a wall-mounted display case about 18"x24" out of offcuts of mahogany and oak trim he happened to have, with a clear plastic front. Three shelves in it with tracks mounted on them. He glued pieces of printed backscene behind the shelves, a different scene for each level. Very decorative. HTH SignatureWolf 'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.' Wolf said the following on 24/07/2007 14:39: > There is an outfit whose name I forget (I found it by googling) > from whom I bought custom turned replacement wheels for a Lima GWR > diesel car. RP25 profile, very nice, but they cost more than the model. You're probably thinking of Ultrascale. They're not exactly custom turned, but they're not exactly off-the shelf either :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > Wolf said the following on 24/07/2007 14:39: >> There is an outfit whose name I forget (I found it by googling) from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You're probably thinking of Ultrascale. They're not exactly custom > turned, but they're not exactly off-the shelf either :-) Yes, that's it. They said to allow up to six weeks for delivery, so I inferred that they made up the wheels in batches. Small batches, probably. ;-) Excellent product, though. Includes axle-mounted gears as required. Just dropped in. Well worth the money IMO. SignatureWolf 'Just because it's true doesn't mean it's the right answer.' Wolf said the following on 24/07/2007 15:40: > Yes, that's it. They said to allow up to six weeks for delivery, so I > inferred that they made up the wheels in batches. Small batches, > probably. ;-) It's now up to six *months* delivery :-( > Excellent product, though. Includes axle-mounted gears as required. Just > dropped in. Well worth the money IMO. They are, and will be even better if they go ahead with plans to introduce a bigger range of steel tyres. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ >Wolf said the following on 24/07/2007 14:39: >> There is an outfit whose name I forget (I found it by googling) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You're probably thinking of Ultrascale. They're not exactly custom >turned, but they're not exactly off-the shelf either :-) They were however a deliberate direct replacement. > >>> I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for > >>> later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Also, they showed up the poor motor, which is the next item on the list. > It's never ending, like maintaining your house and garden. ;-) Aye, I can see that with this one anyway. Oh well, nothing ventured, as they say :-) I guess I've learnt something from this, as I didn't realise there were different depths of track available. I know there is for Scalextric, but I have the deeper grooves in the set I have, so older cars will run on it. > Also, the Triang model is not up to modern standards in running gear, > mechanism, or body detail. If you like it (presumably is has some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mounted on them. He glued pieces of printed backscene behind the > shelves, a different scene for each level. Very decorative. I don't think I'd go that far, it doesn't actually have any special meaning for me, other than I wanted a large loco. I think I'll probably just paint it up a bit, and stick it in a siding somewhere. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> <snip> > I don't think I'd go that far, it doesn't actually have any special > meaning for me, other than I wanted a large loco. I think I'll probably > just paint it up a bit, and stick it in a siding somewhere. You could remove some bits and weather it so that it looks like a rusting hulk. ;-) I notice that the local Wal-Mart is now selling a selection of 1:24 model cars decorated to look like they belong in a junk yard. SignatureMartin S. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You could remove some bits and weather it so that it looks like a rusting > hulk. ;-) Bit of a shame with a Princess Royal class. I might still plan to paint it in LMS colours, and stick it on a display only layout. > I notice that the local Wal-Mart is now selling a selection of 1:24 model > cars decorated to look like they belong in a junk yard. Hmm, yes the weathered stuff is OK, except you are kind of stuck with that look, and 1:24 would look a little odd surely :-) SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> > > I notice that the local Wal-Mart is now selling a selection of 1:24 model > > cars decorated to look like they belong in a junk yard. > > Hmm, yes the weathered stuff is OK, except you are kind of stuck with > that look, and 1:24 would look a little odd surely :-) More than a little odd , miles out of scale > > > I notice that the local Wal-Mart is now selling a selection of 1:24 model > > > cars decorated to look like they belong in a junk yard. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > More than a little odd , miles out of scale Er, yes, that was what I was trying to get at :-) I did build those old Airfix 1:24 Spitfire and Hurricane kits, and they are huge. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >> > I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for >> > later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I will probably end up doing that. However, is it cost effective to >replace the wheels anyway? Bearing in mind I only paid £10 for this one. Probably not. I doubt standard 4mm scale axles will be a direct replacement. >Cheers. >Firstly, thanks to all for their input on my first posting here, it was >a great deal of help. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a >newer model. What track are you using? Code 100 Peco Streamline has been around a long time, dating back to the days of deep flanges. >>Firstly, thanks to all for their input on my first posting here, it was >>a great deal of help. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Code 100 Peco Streamline has been around a long time, dating back to > the days of deep flanges. Triang was originally Code 140. (kim) >>>Firstly, thanks to all for their input on my first posting here, it was >>>a great deal of help. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Triang was originally Code 140. I know, but Streamline has been around since the days of Triang Hornby and claimed to be universal. I don't know how they did it, because I use matching track and wheel standards in O gauge. In my OO days I used SMP Scaleway which handled over scale flanges by cutting back the inside of the chairs, which looked right from outside. The chairs also raised the code 75 rail off the sleepers so there was room for oversize flanges. Does Peco do anything like this? >(kim) [..] > >I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for > >later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Code 100 Peco Streamline has been around a long time, dating back to > the days of deep flanges. I'm using whatever came with the Caledonian 0-4-0 set. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >[..] >> >I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I'm using whatever came with the Caledonian 0-4-0 set. That's probably code 100 train set track, not even universal. > >[..] > >> >I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's probably code 100 train set track, not even universal. Most likely. I didn't know there were choices! Still, I do now. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> > [..] >> >I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I'm using whatever came with the Caledonian 0-4-0 set. My Triang Class 31 diesel won't run properly on Hornby Series 6 track. It just bounces along the sleeper chairs like a demented kangaroo with blue sparks flying off the wheels and a strong smell of ozone in the air. A replacement set of wheels is available but there are so many other things wrong with the model it's easier to just buy a new one. (kim) > > [..] > >> >I suppose I'm looking at a couple of solutions; Change the wheels for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > just bounces along the sleeper chairs like a demented kangaroo with blue > sparks flying off the wheels and a strong smell of ozone in the air. Yeah, that's what it's doing. > A > replacement set of wheels is available but there are so many other things > wrong with the model it's easier to just buy a new one. Yup, have now come to that conclusion. Cheers. SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> kim said the following on 24/07/2007 17:30: > ... a strong smell of ozone in the air ... That suddenly took me back a number of years :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > kim said the following on 24/07/2007 17:30: > >> ... a strong smell of ozone in the air ... > > That suddenly took me back a number of years :-) And me to my first trip on the Tube in 1951... SignatureMartin S. > I also noticed the 4-6-2 was jumping a little going over the points. > Further investigation finds that the wheels are deeper in the groove [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > later design, modify the wheels so they fit, or forget it and buy a > newer model. I think you'll find the cost of changing wheels and other requirements will make such a conversion uneconomic. John. |
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