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Model Forum / General / Railroads / September 2007Inter track distances
I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. Short of getting in the car and going down to the Spa Valley Railway [LBSCR/SR Tunbridge Wells] 1960 ish can anyone tell me the distance between tracks ? OR where to find such information ? {R} > I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > {R} Luckily I just sat in on a PTS meeting at Pickering, and have an employees handbook. The standard track distance is 6ft 6in.  SignatureAndy Hewitt <http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/> >> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >The standard track distance is 6ft 6in. Be aware that this is a minimum. It increases on curves and in other situations. >>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It increases on curves and in other situations. I think it used to be 6 foot on the straight. On the Liverpool Manchester line they started out with 4' 8.5" so out of gauge loads could run on the inner rails of both tracks during slack periods, I believe this idea was dropped after Mr Huskisson got mashed on the opening day. Mike >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >inner rails of both tracks during slack periods, I believe this idea was >dropped after Mr Huskisson got mashed on the opening day. They call it "the six foot". >Mike > >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > They call it "the six foot". But the "four foot" is 4'8½" - it's just a shorthand. > >Mike Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >> >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >> >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >But the "four foot" is 4'8½" - it's just a shorthand. As is the six foot. >> >Mike > >Richard > >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > They call it "the six foot". ... and the track "the four foot". >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > believe this idea was dropped after Mr Huskisson got mashed on the > opening day. I did wonder quite a bit on the information that the track distance is 6ft 6in (more or less) and thought that it might be a narrow gauge line. But the information on a track distance of 4ft 8½in on the Liverpool and Manchester line toold me otherwise. Is it really so that you measure track distance between the nearest rails of two tracks and not between track centres? How odd. Does this mean that 6ft 6in track distance translates into 6ft 6in + 4ft 8½in + 2½in = 11ft 5in = 3480 mm (appr.) between track centres (on straight track)? SignatureVenlig hilsen Erik Olsen http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/ > >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Is it really so that you measure track distance between the nearest > rails of two tracks and not between track centres? How odd. Not really, in practical terms. You can make a gauge (stick with two stops on it) to measure the gauge very easily - measuring to the track centres would be more complex, and not realy necessary. > Does this mean that 6ft 6in track distance translates into 6ft 6in + 4ft > 8½in + 2½in = 11ft 5in = 3480 mm (appr.) between track centres (on > straight track)? Yes Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb > Not really, in practical terms. You can make a gauge (stick with > two stops on it) to measure the gauge very easily - measuring to > the track centres would be more complex, and not realy necessary. Well, you can do the same by using track centre distance and measure from for example the left hand rail on the left hand track to the right hand rail on the right hand track. On curves you would normally measure between the outside rails of the curve as gauge widening will change the position of the inside rails. >> Does this mean that 6ft 6in track distance translates into 6ft 6in + >> 4ft 8½in + 2½in = 11ft 5in = 3480 mm (appr.) between track centres >> (on straight track)? > > Yes Thank you. I was uncertain of if track distance is measured over the inside or outside faces of the rail head. SignatureVenlig hilsen Erik Olsen http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/ >>>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >>>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Is it really so that you measure track distance between the nearest >rails of two tracks and not between track centres? How odd. It's just one of the measurements. The other is between centres. But unless you actually have a centre line, a rail-to-rail distance is easier to measure. When there was a derailment they would say "dropped into the six foot" to say there it went. >Does this mean that 6ft 6in track distance translates into 6ft 6in + 4ft >8½in + 2½in = 11ft 5in = 3480 mm (appr.) between track centres (on >straight track)? Yes. > >>>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > >>>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > 8½in + 2½in = 11ft 5in = 3480 mm (appr.) between track centres (on > straight track)? When you're laying full sized track it's a bit complicated to measure to the center of each track, given that the existing track doesn't have any markers or stud contacts or third rail! ;-) The track you're about to lay isn't actually there, which makes it even more difficult! Given illiterate track laying teams, the simplest method of accurate spacing is to give the foreman an accurate gauge, probably a big robust chunk of wood cut accurately to length. Given that this chunk of wood would be unwieldy, the shortest dimension that would give accurate spacing would be chosen. If the gauge had matched the center to center dimension, the track layers may well have mistaken it for a sleeper and laid it under the rails! ;-) Regards, Greg.P. > When you're laying full sized track it's a bit complicated to measure > to the center of each track, given that the existing track doesn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of wood would be unwieldy, the shortest dimension that would give > accurate spacing would be chosen. Interesting point. It's rather amazing, then, that railway builders and maintainers in this country are able to measure distances and clearences from the track centre and has done so for 160 years. Examples: http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/jernbane/profil/fritrumsprofiler_1916.pdf http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/jernbane/profil/fritrumsprofiler_1995.pdf SignatureVenlig hilsen Erik Olsen DK http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/ >> When you're laying full sized track it's a bit complicated to measure >> to the center of each track, given that the existing track doesn't [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/jernbane/profil/fritrumsprofiler_1916.pdf > http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/jernbane/profil/fritrumsprofiler_1995.pdf Surely the gauge (bit of wood) can be cut to measure between the inner rails and simply 'marked' for the centre to centre distance (which woulod be the distance between the lines plus one gauge width). Mike > >> When you're laying full sized track it's a bit complicated to measure > >> to the center of each track, given that the existing track doesn't [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Mike Yes, that would work, but, the "piece of wood" system would require two 'track gauge with center marked' pieces of wood plus a much longer 'center to center' piece of wood. That's three pieces of wood to be carried about, as against _one_ shorter piece accurately cut to fit between the outer rail edges of the two parallel tracks. I've just had a digger driver (literate) dig out the site for my new shed/garage and water tank. The shed will be 12m x 7m and the regulations require a 1m strip all around to also be dug out and filled with base material. That's 12m + 1m + 1m + 3.5m = ??m and 7m + 1m + 1m = ?m. The result? a site 15.5m x 8m wide at one end, 10.5m at the other. Ahhrrrgg! Regards, Greg.P. > > When you're laying full sized track it's a bit complicated to measure > > to the center of each track, given that the existing track doesn't [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > country are able to measure distances and clearences from the track > centre and has done so for 160 years. Are you sure they didn't just measure to the nearest rail inner face and then add or subtract 717.5mm? That of course would have required the measurer to be mathematically competent! They may well have measured from one rail to the equivalent rail of the other track and effectively sidestepped the problem of adding or subtracting. I do know that here in New Zealand compulsary schooling did not start until about a decade after the first tracks were laid and that the employment criteria for being employed in tracklaying gangs related more to physical rather than mental abilities. As such, the "stick cut to length" scenario of gauging seems more likely than the "precision measuring in conjunction with mathematical calculation" scenario. :-) Regards, Greg.P. > Are you sure they didn't just measure to the nearest rail inner face > and then add or subtract 717.5mm? That of course would have required [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "precision measuring in conjunction with mathematical calculation" > scenario. :-) That's why we had foremen and mech. engineers to provide the mental abilities while the tracklaying gang provided the muscles :-) Fortunately, it's not a problem today. SignatureVenlig hilsen Erik Olsen http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/ >>> I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having >>> difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > It increases on curves and in other situations. And it's not enough for model railways. Go to the NEM or NMRA sites to get recommended track separation distances in mm or inches. > > I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > > difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The standard track distance is 6ft 6in. C to c? You must have very narrow trains! > I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > {R} Six feet - see <http://www.2mm.org.uk/standards/loadinggauge.htm> or <http://tinyurl.com/2c4gm6> But beware - because of "end throw" this distance will need to be increased on curves, especially if the curves are of a small radius. SignatureBruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney <www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont> (Remove teeth to reply) >I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. It varies depending upon whether the tracks carry passengers, when they were first built and whether trains pass in opposite directions on the roads in question. John. > I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and having > difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > {R} Any answer is going to be: a - a generalization. b - era dependant. c - situation dependant. d - probably wrong. The individual founding railway companies set their own standards. They probably set different dimensions for mainlines, branches and yards. Since it is a major job to realign two parallel tracks given that the sub-bases would have to be rebuilt, the tracks tended to stay the same distance apart until such time as there was a real need to change them. An illustration, I was watching a BBC history programme which questioned why the properties/shop fronts in a street in some town in Britain were all of precise equal width but to a dimension which wasn't a round figure in feet and inches. They traced back the subdivision to the time of Roman occupation and the dimension to a logical dimension in the Roman mesuring system. My point is, some dimensions remain long after the logic for their adoption is forgotten. German track spacing is variously 3.75m on prussian branch lines, 4.0m on early main lines, 4.25m on 20th century main lines and 4.5m (minimum) on ICE lines. New Zealand Railways was 11 feet, increased to 12 feet around 1905. None of that answers your question but it might help explain discrepencies in other answers you might get. ;-) Regards, Greg.P. Hi, > I want to build a crossover [2mm scale] but I don't know and > having difficulty finding out the distance between tracks. Here's what you are looking for: http://www.btinternet.com/~joyce.whitchurch/clear950.gif Bear in mind the note about increasing to 10ft way for loops and sidings alongside running lines. Assuming rail at 2.3/4" wide and 6ft way, the minimum centre-to-centre is 11ft-2in = 134" (72" + 2 x 2.3/4" + 56.5" = 134") (Note that on the GWR and BR(W) lines the old "00" rail was 3" wide, so historic centres are 1/2" wider at 11ft-2.1/2in, and the "six-foot" with later 2.3/4" rail is actually 6ft-0.1/2in -- i.e. 6ft-6in to running edges.) All spacings need to be increased on curved track to allow for vehicle overhangs and superelevation. regards, Martin. ------------------------------ http://www.templot.com > All spacings need to be increased on curved track > to allow for vehicle overhangs and superelevation. ----------------------------- Too true Martin... For many years my dad worked Earlestown No 1 signal box which controlled the south junction of the Earlestown triangle, all sides of which were originally double track. The 15 mph east curve to and from Manchester was and still is one of the sharpest main line curves in the UK at 7.5 chains radius. The nowadays single track west curve to and from Liverpool, when double tracked, was slightly easier and had a 20 mph limit but still required care. A prominent notice in No 1 signal box contained a large photograph of a GWR 'Ocean Mails' coach. It warned that whenever one of those 70 ft long vehicles was included in the consist of the 7 days-per-week Cardiff - Liverpool, which called at Earlestown (west curve) around 06.30, the opposite line must be blocked. From my observations of sometimes travelling to work in Liverpool on that very same train it often had an Ocean Mails coach included. The southbound 06.25 Push & Pull workman's train to Warrington had to be in & out of Earlestown fairly smartish! Nowadays, slight track adjustments and grinding off nearly all of the platform coping stones' overhang has allowed all the current 23 meter coaches to pass through these platforms whether stopping at the station or not. ---------------------------------- But much nearer to model rail matters, I'm just in the process of confirming the minimum inter-track distances at stations and passing loops on my 16mm scale garden railway at 7 inches. I've just acquired a gas-fired, live steam tank locomotive which is 4.25 inches wide... and HOT! Should it ever derail in a loop and need an assisting finger, I don't want a burned one! Regards, DigitisED (Eddie Bellass) Eddie & Margaret Bellass, Merseyside, United Kingdom. Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free and checked by a leading anti-virus system - updated continuously. |
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