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"Green" Power?

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Graham Harrison - 27 Nov 2007 19:38 GMT
I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
sheilded cable from the house for electricity.

Then, today, I saw a narrow boat with a windmill on it and wondered if I
could dispense with a mains connection and use "green power".   After all if
they can run things like lights and a TV .....

Has anyone one else tried this?   I'm thinking I'd be running lights (in the
shed) and possibly a computer in addition to the layout.   I've got an old
laptop which will run what I need so 19.9vdc 3.4a for that and I could use
low voltage dc lighting.   So far, so DC but I want to use DCC to control
the trains and the reason for the computer is to apply train
control/points/signalling (one day).   I might want some heating too.   I'll
have space for batteries and our house is in a good position for wind power.
Unfortunately the roof of the shed won't be ideally placed for solar pv but
I can find a way around that.

Yes, it's probably a pipe dream but if you don't ask....
Greg Procter - 27 Nov 2007 20:21 GMT
> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
> sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yes, it's probably a pipe dream but if you don't ask....

Solar panels and/or wind power will charge batteries. That covers
lights, train power and computer.
(you can buy whatsits so that you can operate computers in cars)
Heating from 12 volt batteries isn't really practical, but you could
insulate and double glaze without breaking the bank. Emergency heat
would have to come from other old-fashioned means.
Assuming you're like normal people and only spend a few hours per day in
your shed quite a modest solar panel or car generator wind generator
with a couple of adequate car batteries will be sufficient.

Greg.P.
NZ
oldship@interalpha.couk - 27 Nov 2007 21:00 GMT
>I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
>sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Has anyone one else tried this?  

Well if you get a narrowboat with a windmill it would save building  a
shed.

G.harman
Graham Harrison - 27 Nov 2007 22:30 GMT
>>I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run
>>a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> G.harman

Hmm.   Problem 1 - no canal/river at the bottom of the garden (or anywhere
near).   But then I suppose I could dry dock it in the garden!
Problem 2 - shape of the resulting layout.   Not sure I want to build a 72
foot long shunting yard!
Peter Abraham - 28 Nov 2007 07:54 GMT
>>I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
>>sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>G.harman

    Are there such things as Controllers  which will operate from
low DC? Otherwise an inverter will be called for.

The people of North Sutherland (Loch 'orrible & environs) all used
fields full of old lorry batteries with wind powered turbines up until
the 70's when they gratefully grabbed the mains supply offered!  

    As we all tend to instant gratification these days I would
supplement the Green energy with a power cable ( in the Andrew
'lectricity was always green in any case.)

    I am not sure that a garden corner porting  solar panels, a
frenectic or stationary wind turbine and I suppose a few violently
rattling hailyards with Inglefield clips beating out on an aluminium
mast  would completely meet  the approbation of the neighbours. (he,
he)
Regards
manatbandq@hotmail.com - 28 Nov 2007 12:26 GMT
> >>I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
> >>sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>         Are there such things as Controllers  which will operate from
> low DC? Otherwise an inverter will be called for.

A lot of DCC systems (as per the OPs requirement) have external
transformers. Anything that will run on low V AC will be fine on low V
DC.

MBQ
Chris - 29 Nov 2007 23:56 GMT
>>>> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run a
>>>> sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> MBQ
The specs for the Digitrax systems mention low voltage AC and DC for
input minimum 16V though.

Chris
kim - 28 Nov 2007 06:29 GMT
> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would
> run a sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
>
> Then, today, I saw a narrow boat with a windmill on it and wondered
> if I could dispense with a mains connection and use "green power".

You might want to discuss it with neighbours first? Some take extreme
exception to having a wind turbine within sight and earshot of their homes.
As for being "green", I suspect more energy is used in the manufacture of a
wind turbine than will ever be used by a model railway over its lifetime.

(kim)
David Cantrell - 28 Nov 2007 15:13 GMT
> You might want to discuss it with neighbours first? Some take extreme
> exception to having a wind turbine within sight and earshot of their homes.

That's because they're arseholes though, not because of anything to do
with the turbine.

The sort of small windmills and solar cells that are cropping up on
12":1' lineside equipment are presumably available commercially and
would be more than capable of charging a couple of car batteries.
That'll give you 24V DC, which should be more than enough for a laptop
some lights and a railway.

Signature

David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

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estarriol - 28 Nov 2007 09:42 GMT
> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run
> a sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yes, it's probably a pipe dream but if you don't ask....

Have a read of this article from Toms Hardware, it covers the principles and
test bed for a solar powered PC, the methods etc should be transferrable.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/solar-livetest,review-29627.html
Keith J Patrick - 28 Nov 2007 14:10 GMT
One should make sure both the shed and 'turbine' are securely anchored. I
have just been reading a story in a magazine about a chap who wind-powered
his shed without making sure it was securely anchored. I'll leave the group
to imagine what happened in some very high winds !!!
> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run
> a sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yes, it's probably a pipe dream but if you don't ask....
Graham Harrison - 28 Nov 2007 18:24 GMT
> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run
> a sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yes, it's probably a pipe dream but if you don't ask....

I do have neighbours but not very many - I live in the countryside.   One of
my sillier thoughts had been to approach them all with a suggestion for a
co-operative power scheme.   In the immediate vicinty there are 7 other
households.   We're on the side of a hill so if I put the windmill/panels
uphill from my house I don't believe any of those 7 would see it (some
hedgerow trees help in one case).   That's not to say noone would see it -
there is one house uphill (but about a quarter of a mile away) and two more
down the lane who might be able to see it from upstairs windows.

The idea of a flying shed is amusing.   I had already recognised that
attaching a windmill might not be appropriate - I have heard it suggested
that some houses may not be appropriate either.   On the other hand, there
are windmills and windmills.   I tend to think of something like an old wind
driven corn mill (think Windy Miller!) but I have seen pictures of wind
driven turbines (maybe a better term than windmill) that one could almost
wrap around a chimney.   Oh - I'm going into dreamland again.

Tom's hardware is interesting.   They comment that driving a laptop was
deemed simple so they went to build a desktop and found they had to build
something specialised.
estarriol - 28 Nov 2007 19:44 GMT
>> I'm planning to put a layout in a shed.   I had been assuming I would run
>> a sheilded cable from the house for electricity.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> deemed simple so they went to build a desktop and found they had to build
> something specialised.
Ypu have to remember laptops are already designed to be low power usage etc,
so what you would have been doing with that is vharging the laptops battery.
Dragon Heart - 29 Nov 2007 17:28 GMT
Try www.greenphase.com/wind.html

Pity you don't live near to the House of Commons as with all the hot
air coming from that lot over the past few days you could power a full
scale railway.

Possibly the best way to heat a shed by a wind turbine is via a heat
pump .... to be honest it would be cheaper by many times over to run
your shielded cable from your domestic mains !
oldship@interalpha.couk - 29 Nov 2007 19:43 GMT
>Try www.greenphase.com/wind.html
>
>Possibly the best way to heat a shed by a wind turbine is via a heat
>pump .... to be honest it would be cheaper by many times over to run
>your shielded cable from your domestic mains !

My shed is heated by a home made heat pump arrangement.
Got almost everything from skips so it hardly cost anything.
   Couple of old radiators and an adapted Beer cooler.
The cooler instead of cooling a water bath too ice and loosing the
heat through a cooling fan normally situated outside a cooled  pub
cellar now dumps the heat into the radiators in the shed.
The water bath has been linked to a couple of water butts so it takes
a fair few hours to get them really cold when the efficiency drops a
bit.    Takes about 800 watts from the mains and brings the temp up
just as fast as a 2kw heater I used before.  The shed is well
insulated and once the temp reaches the 70's F  stays well warm enough
for a few hours in there with just the reflected heat from a couple of
ex shop fluorescent light unit banks also found by skipmining.
I hate working with shadows.
G.Harman
 
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