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Model Forum / General / Railroads / January 2008Narrow gauge scale kits
Would any one advice on narrow gauge modelling . 009 or 7mm which is the most available in kits conversions using available chassis, or complete kits. Any information on suppliers . Any help at all. >Would any one advice on narrow gauge modelling . >009 or 7mm which is the most available in kits conversions using available >chassis, or complete kits. >Any information on suppliers . >Any help at all. 7mm It uses OO mechanisms (unless you use 14mm gauge track) which are heavier and more reliable than their N gauge equivalents. Wrightlines (Kay Butler): http://www.keykits.net/ Peco (track, locomotives, carriages and wagons) http://www.peco-uk.com/Products/pecoproducts.htm Scrolldown to O-16.5. The Beyer Peacock tram engine was from the Glyn Valley and the Fletcher Jennings from the Talyllyn. > Would any one advice on narrow gauge modelling . > 009 or 7mm which is the most available in kits conversions using > available chassis, or complete kits. > Any information on suppliers . > Any help at all. Last year I started in earnest with 009 and it is at times a real PITA so much so that via home casting I've started to scratch build stock. The 009 society apparently supplies useful materials but you only get to buy them if you're a member. I mean for crying out loud, it's as though they don't want folks to model in their scale/gauge! And what a stupid, stupid, stupid business model! As for other supplies with the exception of Nigel Lawton and Backwoods (both of who have a very good reputation) you have absolutely no idea what their products look like. Long lists with no images, then further long lists of what you need to buy elsewhere simply to finish their kit. It's absolute pants. "We supply body kits for such and such locomotive types ... but to get them to run you'll need some obsolete N gauge chassis made by a company now long out of business". Get effing real. Anyway as I say I’ve taken a leaf out of Nigel’s book and now produce a range of 009 tubs, flats and wagons. All freelance in design and to be honest at this stage only fit for myself but it’s the only way I’ve been able to make any progress.  SignatureAll the best, Chris Wilson email to cwilson at britwar dor co dot uk, reply address is spamtrapped. http://www.the-dormouse.org The Dormouse Line model railway Chris Wilson said the following on 20/01/2008 20:48: > The 009 society apparently supplies useful materials but you only get to > buy them if you're a member. I mean for crying out loud, it's as though > they don't want folks to model in their scale/gauge! One word - tax. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > Chris Wilson said the following on 20/01/2008 20:48: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > One word - tax. Yes, tax is the a big reason. If the goods are just transferred within members of the club, then there is no taxation requirement to account for surpluses. And as its just re-arranging funds between club members, those surpluses are not *profits* and thus not liable for corporation tax. (I was once treasure of 2mm Scale Association, who have a similar policy). The other reason is who paid for the research, sourcing and development of the items. It would be the members of the society. Putting those out at commercial terms changes the "club/business" from one of "helping the members" to "making a profit". That profit making would be on the back of years of development, so the difficulties in writing down investment costs becomes a huge headache. And most of the parts that small societies supply are completely uneconomic anyway (otherwise Bachmann or Mr Small-Bits-for-Model-Trade would be selling them). Being a commercial company is a huge step for a club, and one which most small volunteer run societies would not want to head down. - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ > Last year I started in earnest with 009 and it is at times a > real PITA so much so that via home casting I've started to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > folks to model in their scale/gauge! And what a stupid, > stupid, stupid business model! They probably take the view that this is a benefit of membership, and therefore an incentive for modellers in the scale/gauge to join. They're not alone, as I think other societies (2mm, 3mm, S ?) also only supply to their members (that statement being subject to corrections). John Chris, >Last year I started in earnest with 009 and it is at times a real PITA >so much so that via home casting I've started to scratch build stock. >The 009 society apparently supplies useful materials but you only get to >buy them if you're a member. I mean for crying out loud, it's as though >they don't want folks to model in their scale/gauge! And what a stupid, >stupid, stupid business model! The stupid business model would be to spend society funds developing products then allow any non-society member to purchase them. Members get to be the exclusive purchasers of the products because they effectively paid for the development with their subscriptions and they usually only pay for the costs of manufacture with little or no mark-up. It is a business model that works well in a lot of other areas as well as model railways. Jim. > buy them if you're a member. I mean for crying out loud, it's as though > they don't want folks to model in their scale/gauge! And what a stupid, > stupid, stupid business model! It's actually a very sensible business model for the society and for members. Pay the membership and it will probably pay for itself in the saving's you'll make. I hate to use the S word but I think you would be stupid not to. You can always decline to renew membership after a year or two. MBQ > Would any one advice on narrow gauge modelling . > 009 or 7mm which is the most available in kits conversions using > available chassis, or complete kits. > Any information on suppliers . > Any help at all. Your starting points would be: http://www.009society.com/ http://www.7mmnga.org.uk/ plenty available in both scales,it's really down to which one suits you best. Neil. PC said the following on 20/01/2008 20:09: > Would any one advice on narrow gauge modelling . > 009 or 7mm which is the most available in kits conversions using available > chassis, or complete kits. > Any information on suppliers . > Any help at all. If you're starting from scratch and have the space, go for for 5.5mm or 7mm scale. The 4mm scale OO9 market, with some notable exceptions such as Backwoods Miniatures, still seems to be in the rabbit warren era, with lumpy whitemetal bodies running on un-modified N-gauge chassis. Whatever you do though, don't call your layout some pseudo-Welsh name. That novelty wore off 40 years ago :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote > The 4mm scale OO9 market, with some notable exceptions such > as Backwoods Miniatures, still seems to be in the rabbit warren era, > with lumpy whitemetal bodies running on un-modified N-gauge chassis. > > Whatever you do though, don't call your layout some pseudo-Welsh name. > That novelty wore off 40 years ago :-) I still have an urge to build a 1970's 'retro-style' rabbit warren layout, set in a slate mine, with a pseudo-Welsh name. I suspect it'll be a retirement project :-) > On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote >> The 4mm scale OO9 market, with some notable exceptions such [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I suspect it'll be a retirement project :-) I saw a nice one years ago, built on four 4ft section IIRC. Pant-Ys-Gawn was its name, sir. On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:04:20 +0000, Wolf K. wrote >> I still have an urge to build a 1970's 'retro-style' rabbit warren layout, >> set in a slate mine, with a pseudo-Welsh name. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I saw a nice one years ago, built on four 4ft section IIRC. Pant-Ys-Gawn > was its name, sir. Sadly a Google for that name only brings up references to an (admittedly very tasty) cheese. > On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I suspect it'll be a retirement project :-) Why don't you concoct an elaborate fictional history for your railway , then assemble a loco stud comprising Dolgoch and Earl of Merioneth looking exactly as they appeared on their own railways in the 1970's? Andy On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:37:03 +0000, Andy Kirkham wrote >>> The 4mm scale OO9 market, with some notable exceptions such >>> as Backwoods Miniatures, still seems to be in the rabbit warren era, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Merioneth looking exactly as they appeared on their own railways in > the 1970's? I guess that, should I go the 'retro' route, that's what I'll have to do - along with the dreadful puns in the layout name. The worst I remember was a 1970's rabbit warren with two stations - Aberbinear and Bayfore :-) > On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:37:03 +0000, Andy Kirkham wrote > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The worst I remember was a 1970's rabbit warren with two stations - > Aberbinear and Bayfore :-) Rabbit warrens have indeed gone out of favour, but there seems to be a modern-day subversion of narrow gauge authenticity which I also find rather pernicious. It typically takes the form of a terminus which looks as if it has been set down on the village green at Lilliput Lane http://www.myfavethings.com/html/lily.html . Andy On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:04:59 +0000, Andy Kirkham wrote >>> Why don't you concoct an elaborate fictional history for your >>> railway , then assemble a loco stud comprising Dolgoch and Earl of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > looks as if it has been set down on the village green at Lilliput Lane > http://www.myfavethings.com/html/lily.html . Excellent... Who needs to scratchbuild buildings when there's those little beauties :-) Stimpy said the following on 21/01/2008 22:24: > Excellent... Who needs to scratchbuild buildings when there's those little > beauties :-) Don't!! Just don't, OK :-) :-) :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ >Stimpy said the following on 21/01/2008 22:24: > >> Excellent... Who needs to scratchbuild buildings when there's those little >> beauties :-) > >Don't!! Just don't, OK :-) :-) :-) For true authenticity for a Welsh Narrow gauge line the shop in Portmeirion village sells replicas of the buildings there. Luvvrly bright colours and you could run Italian stock as well. G.harman > On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I suspect it'll be a retirement project :-) If you want a slate quarry - were there any slate mines ? - with a difference why no go back a few years and set it in Leicestershire. At one time it was the slate capital of a very large area ! Cheers, Simon >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Cheers, > Simon I dint know that Lake district Cornwall and was it Mull in Scotland SignatureTrev You can always tell a Yorkshire man, But you can't tell him much. >>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I dint know that Lake district Cornwall and was it Mull in Scotland Swithland slate first used in Roman Leicester as a roofing material. Reached max annual output of 4936 tons in 1895 - that was 0.9 % of national output if I remember correctly. Not so sure about Mull, mostly intrusive and lavas. Cheers, Simon > If you want a slate quarry - were there any slate mines ? - On the assumption that a quarry is a pit open to the sky, while a mine is an underground working - yes. Most of the slate workings around Blaenau Ffestiniog were underground, as was Bryneglwys and those in the Corris area. Andy >> If you want a slate quarry - were there any slate mines ? - > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Andy I thought about that definition but dropped it as coal is mined either underground or by opencast workings. Had quick look at a mining textbook that says 'quarrying is done for dimension stone and crushed stone'. So looks as though nope, no slate mining. Cheers, Simon simon said the following on 22/01/2008 23:23: > So looks as though nope, no slate mining. ...is the wrong answer. See all the previous examples. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > simon said the following on 22/01/2008 23:23: > >> So looks as though nope, no slate mining. > > ...is the wrong answer. See all the previous examples. Erm, they just name a few underground quarries. As slate is a 'dimension stone' it is quarried and not mined. cheers, Simon simon said the following on 23/01/2008 23:25: > Erm, they just name a few underground quarries. As slate is a 'dimension > stone' it is quarried and not mined. Take a look at the website of a company that's been *mining* and quarrying slate for 150 years. I reckon that after all that time they might know what they're talking about. http://welsh-slate.com/ "has been mining and quarrying Natural Slate at Llechwedd Slate Mines for over 150 years." http://www.llechwedd-slate-caverns.co.uk/ "our world famous cavern tours how slate was mined" http://www.wales-underground.org.uk/slate/history.shtml "By the 1870’s slate mining had become one of the most important of Welsh industries." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_industry_in_Wales "Blaenau Ffestiniog, where the slate was mined rather than quarried." SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > simon said the following on 23/01/2008 23:25: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_industry_in_Wales "Blaenau > Ffestiniog, where the slate was mined rather than quarried." <waves hand in manner of excited primary school child> Can I now plug my friend Dave's site covering mines of NW Wales ? http://www.hendrecoed.org.uk/ He also has "BBC cred points" with an article at http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/sites/history/pages/manganese.shtml </waves> - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ On 24/01/2008 10:18, Nigel Cliffe said, > Can I now plug my friend Dave's site covering mines of NW Wales ? > http://www.hendrecoed.org.uk/ I think you just did :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > simon said the following on 23/01/2008 23:25: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slate_industry_in_Wales "Blaenau Ffestiniog, > where the slate was mined rather than quarried." Not at all, having worked in the mning industry I know that miners just describe things as they need to for their own environment. Presume its the same in many other industries - which course is perfectly fine for them. As an similar example consider the broad range of 'granites' available from stone suppliers. Very few are real granites but who cares when fitting a kitchen. So, I recon you can have an underground quarry and an opencast mine but if you want to be accurate in terms of mining then there are no slate mines. cheers, Simon simon said the following on 21/01/2008 23:28: > If you want a slate quarry - were there any slate mines ? Yes - many of the North Wales slate came from underground. See http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4034166 for instance. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >difference why no go back a few years and set it in Leicestershire. At one >time it was the slate capital of a very large area ! Slate mines - plenty. The narrow vien at Corris was mined underground, and served by the upper line from Maespoeth (originally the main line of the Corris, but only ever horse-worked). Plenty of the slate from Blaenau is mined underground, too. SignatureAndy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales "your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks" (Peter D. Rieden) > On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:51:41 +0000, Paul Boyd wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I suspect it'll be a retirement project :-) Does anyone remember the one in RM in the mid-late 70's. I think it took inspiration from Llaregub (Under Milk Wood - "bugger all" backwards). The name had welsh spelling but was pronounced "Where the 'ell are we". What was the other station called? MBQ On 24/01/2008 09:35, manatbandq@hotmail.com said, > but was pronounced "Where the > 'ell are we". What was the other station called? Dunno, but wasn't that the punchline of a very old joke about some African tribes of short stature? :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ >> but was pronounced "Where the >> 'ell are we". What was the other station called? > >Dunno, but wasn't that the punchline of a very old joke about some >African tribes of short stature? :-) I don't think the word was "'ell" :-) Jim. >>> but was pronounced "Where the >>> 'ell are we". What was the other station called? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jim. It was when me dad first told me - was about 7. Simon > >>> but was pronounced "Where the > >>> 'ell are we". What was the other station called? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It was when me dad first told me - was about 7. You were up early! >> >>> but was pronounced "Where the >> >>> 'ell are we". What was the other station called? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You were up early! just the once. Simon, >>>Dunno, but wasn't that the punchline of a very old joke about some >>>African tribes of short stature? :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >It was when me dad first told me - was about 7. In the joke, as I remember it, the tribe's name started with "F" :-) Your dad might have told it differently if you had been a fair bit older :-) Jim. > Simon, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Jim. He did - many times. Now its my turn. Cheers, Simon |
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