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Model Forum / General / Railroads / July 2008What is the best mid sized UK loco?
Thinking about the size of Black 5 Hall? B1? Black 5? BR 5MT? EE 37? What do you think > Thinking about the size of Black 5 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What do you think West Country Class 20 Paul Hymek every time! S >> Thinking about the size of Black 5 >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Paul The message <QRu9k.101062$P83.8358@newsfe20.ams2> from "sb" <steve.board@ntlworld.com> contains these words: > Hymek every time! Black 5. Every time. No boxes, thanks.  SignatureDave, Frodsham > The message <QRu9k.101062$P83.8358@newsfe20.ams2> > from "sb" <steve.board@ntlworld.com> contains these words: > >> Hymek every time! > > Black 5. Every time. No boxes, thanks. Most certainly agree to both comments. cheers, simon >>Black 5. Every time. No boxes, thanks. I thought the BR 5MT was supposed to be better Boxes! Is that the equivalent of a kettle? The message <g4g6e1$3bf$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk> from "Martin" <nospam@spam.spam> contains these words: > >>Black 5. Every time. No boxes, thanks. > I thought the BR 5MT was supposed to be better Possibly, but not by much. > Boxes! > Is that the equivalent of a kettle? <g> When The Duchess goes "Down the Coast" (Crewe to Holyhead) there's usually a box of heavy castings hung on the back of the (usually) 12 coach train. This box has two purposes: firstly it acts as ballast to stop The Duchess going too fast, and secondly, when the train reaches Holyhead the box pretends to be a loco and shunts the stock while The Duchess goes to Valley to turn on the triangle. ["The Duchess" can be also read as "The Princess" or "The Duke" or "Number 9" or some other suitable steam loco.] SignatureDave, Frodsham >The message <g4g6e1$3bf$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk> >from "Martin" <nospam@spam.spam> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Possibly, but not by much. It's significant that apart from the Britannia on the fifteen guinea special, the last workings ware by Black 5s. >> Boxes! > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >["The Duchess" can be also read as "The Princess" or "The Duke" or >"Number 9" or some other suitable steam loco.] Some time in the 1980s I rode behind 46229 from Carlisle to York. There was supposed to be a 65mph limit for steam, but It went like the clappers down from Aig Gill. Apparently there was an unofficial record for preservation steam on BR that they easily broke. An amazing run behind an amazing engine - even if it didn't have a copper capped chimney. >>When The Duchess goes "Down the Coast" (Crewe to Holyhead) there's >>usually a box of heavy castings hung on the back of the (usually) 12 >>coach train. They should have a more interesting shaped box on there - with light weight aluminium castings, and at the front! The ones I am thinking of damaged a 47 through high speed tests when using it as a dead load. The message <g4ihti$qql$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk> from "Martin" <nospam@spam.spam> contains these words: > They should have a more interesting shaped box on there - with light weight > aluminium castings, and at the front! You mean between The Duchess and the train? And lightweight aluminium? Fat lot of good that would be. ;-) SignatureDave, Frodsham >>You mean between The Duchess and the train? And lightweight aluminium? >>Fat lot of good that would be. ;-) Instead of the Duchess<vbg> The message <g4km3o$hot$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk> from "Martin" <nospam@spam.spam> contains these words: > >>You mean between The Duchess and the train? And lightweight aluminium? > >>Fat lot of good that would be. ;-) > Instead of the Duchess<vbg> That would be a pointless exercise on a *steam* excursion. We know that delticboxes* can set fire to the scenery, but they're not a substitute for the Real Thing. [* I once got up at some ungodly hour (about 08.00) on a Saturday morning to take a photo of one going through our local station (100yds away from the house). Can't remember what it was called - something like "Alice" or "Araminta" IIRC] SignatureDave, Frodsham > The message <g4km3o$hot$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk> > from "Martin" <nospam@spam.spam> contains these words: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > delticboxes* can set fire to the scenery, but they're not a substitute > for the Real Thing. Dunno, perhaps they could do that with Mallard - put a steam/smoke generator in it, no one would notice the box is doing the work. Museum people would be happy they dont have to get it back working and those that do want to see it running will get theyre wish as well. Cheers, Simmon > Hymek every time! > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Paul Yup, best looking diesel of all time! Paul >>Hymek every time! >> >>S Forgot about those - but they are pretty good - not sure if they would have lasted as well as a 37 though Anyway I was just choosing one per company otherwise I'd have had to do a few 4MTs Crabs, Granges ect > >>Hymek every time! > >> > >>S > > Forgot about those - but they are pretty good - not sure if they would have > lasted as well as a 37 though Much, much comfier for the crew though! Mind I noticed that they've installed partitions behind the seats in at least of the remaining 37's - they'll be sealing the noses and doors next and installing heaters that actually produce more that 5W....... > Anyway I was just choosing one per company otherwise I'd have had to do a > few 4MTs Crabs, Granges ect Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >>Much, much comfier for the crew though! Mind I noticed that they've >>installed partitions behind the seats in at least of the remaining >>37's - they'll be sealing the noses and doors next and installing >>heaters that actually produce more that 5W....... The Hymek is one of the best looking locos ever > >>Much, much comfier for the crew though! Mind I noticed that they've > >>installed partitions behind the seats in at least of the remaining > >>37's - they'll be sealing the noses and doors next and installing > >>heaters that actually produce more that 5W....... > > The Hymek is one of the best looking locos ever Agreed - a "baby 47"! One only lost 10mins with 10 on from Paddington to Westbury - I had to go and look to make sure it wasn't a 47. Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >>Agreed - a "baby 47"! One only lost 10mins with 10 on from >>Paddington to Westbury - I had to go and look to make sure it >>wasn't a 47. Must have been well driven as it is a lot less powerfull than a 47 > >>Agreed - a "baby 47"! One only lost 10mins with 10 on from > >>Paddington to Westbury - I had to go and look to make sure it > >>wasn't a 47. > > Must have been well driven as it is a lot less powerfull than a 47 "Enthusiastically" driven! Mind, all the hydraulics gave a lot more oomph for the same hp engine. Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >>"Enthusiastically" driven! Mind, all the hydraulics gave a lot >>more oomph for the same hp engine. mainly off the line - the power at rail comparesons between 47 50 and 52 are interesting, the 52 off the line being best but the 50 being best at higher speeds > >>"Enthusiastically" driven! Mind, all the hydraulics gave a lot > >>more oomph for the same hp engine. > > mainly off the line - the power at rail comparesons between 47 50 and 52 are > interesting, the 52 off the line being best but the 50 being best at higher > speeds Practical experience suggestes that rated figures are only something of a guide, a 47 beat the pants off 45,46 and 50 on an HST (Heavy Stone Train) under any circumstance. A 33 would pull it's allowed weight up to Upton Scudamore (Warminster) quite fast, but get near the limit and it would struggle, whereas a 37 would always struggle with anything over a brake van, but would still struggle equally with 950 tons on the back (way over load). Indeed a 37 on the Basingstoke (a 47 turn) would almost go up Greatly bank as well as a 47, and indeed we got the Acton (2002 tons) back from Merehead with only one engine (control air failure on the leading 37) without incident one night (well, ok, the fire alarms were ringing, but that wasn't unusual on 37) which shouldn't have been possible. Mind, no two engines performed the same anyway! I've no idea about passenger performance, as happily we only had one passenger turn in our link. Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >> >>"Enthusiastically" driven! Mind, all the hydraulics gave a lot >> >>more oomph for the same hp engine. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I've no idea about passenger performance, as happily we only had one > passenger turn in our link. The railways would run a lot better if they didn't have to keep stopping for those darned passengers. SignatureMartin S. > >> >>"Enthusiastically" driven! Mind, all the hydraulics gave a lot > >> >>more oomph for the same hp engine. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > The railways would run a lot better if they didn't have to keep stopping > for those darned passengers. How true - the Southern used to call us "Go When Ready" (GWR, ho, ho) which was supposed to be an insult, but with freight we could and did, effectively creating our own paths which meant we could get back an hour or two early ;-) It was effectively job-and-knock pre flexible rostering...... Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >>Practical experience suggestes that rated figures are only something >>of a guide, a 47 beat the pants off 45,46 and 50 on an HST (Heavy >>Stone Train) ect very interesting A single 37 on 2000 ton - did't think it could shift it! > >>Practical experience suggestes that rated figures are only something > >>of a guide, a 47 beat the pants off 45,46 and 50 on an HST (Heavy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > A single 37 on 2000 ton - did't think it could shift it! Neither did we - but the big horribe Yank thing was threatening to give us a shove setting back out of the quarry and we were both dammed if that was going to happen! We got out on the third attempt and got up to Quarry Junction from White's Crossing very slowly indeed.....but did it! We got a "Have fun did you?" from the Movement Supervisor, which was quite restrained - after all we had just broken the Terrible Twins that should have been the engines for the onward Acton turn. Apparently the 4ft flame coming out of the exhaust had generated a few box-to-box messages along the way. Sadly my ex dumped all my note books, or I'd be able to say which 37 it was. Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >>Neither did we - but the big horribe Yank thing was threatening >>to give us a shove setting back out of the quarry and we were >>both dammed if that was going to happen! We got out on the third >>attempt and got up to Quarry Junction from White's Crossing very >>slowly indeed.....but did it! Brilliant show - defended English Electrics honour pretty well! > The Hymek is one of the best looking locos ever I've got one of the Heljan 7mm 'Hymek' jobbies sat on the bookcase next to this computer. I have to say (despite being a died-in-the-wool LMS/LNER enthusiast) that it's a bonny beastie. I remember seeing the prototypes working empty stock trains out of Paddington in the early 60s, and always had a bit of a soft spot for them and the D800 series 'Warships', but I'd never want a model of the latter. John. >>West Country Bit big - and the S&D drivers thought they were not very good >>Class 20 I always thought that the mid size 5mt say were the equivalent of a type 3 >>>West Country > > Bit big - and the S&D drivers thought they were not very good Aye and they needed LMS 4-4-0s to pull them over the S&D hills. John. >>>West Country > >Bit big - and the S&D drivers thought they were not very good The rebuilds were good though, effectively 3-cylinder standards. Did they use the rebuilds on the Slow and Dirty, or were they too heavy? I always assumed the reason for leaving some in original condition was for West Country lines that couldn't take the rebuilds. > Thinking about the size of Black 5 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What do you think In real life the Stanier but in model form the 5MT. The two were practically interchangeable around here so substituting one for the other is no big deal. (kim) >>In real life the Stanier but in model form the 5MT. The two were >>practically interchangeable around here so substituting one for the other >>is no big deal. I have to admit I like Modified Halls > >>In real life the Stanier but in model form the 5MT. The two were > >>practically interchangeable around here so substituting one for the other > >>is no big deal. > > I have to admit I like Modified Halls I still like the originals, but then if menthol's not to your taste...... Cheers Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb >> I have to admit I like Modified Halls >I still like the originals, but then if menthol's not to your >taste...... Something to do with some nice preserved runs with them and I know an owner > Thinking about the size of Black 5 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What do you think Q1 for steam for the power and beauty ;) Class 33 the one type that did not need mid-life rebuild. Chris >>Q1 for steam for the power and beauty ;) >>Class 33 the one type that did not need mid-life rebuild SR fan - interesting choices > Thinking about the size of Black 5 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What do you think Bachmann Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 for me everytime. It *really* captures the atmosphere of the prototype and runs like a dream. John. >> Thinking about the size of Black 5 >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > John. Hang on a minute John, havent you gone over to the dark side of the dirty diesels ? cheers, Simon > Hang on a minute John, havent you gone over to the dark side of the dirty > diesels ? Not me mate - I have catholic tastes and like both, although my layout is 100% diesel at the moment. ;-) John. >> Hang on a minute John, havent you gone over to the dark side of the dirty >> diesels ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John. we visited demu couple of weeks ago and a magazine editor was selling unrun diesels at £15 each. Bought a weathered hornby class 37 at Tots insistence, dont tell anyone but I quite like it ! Feel much better after admitting that. Cheers, Simon >>Bachmann Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 for me everytime. It *really* captures the >>atmosphere of the prototype and runs like a dream. I want the BR version (like the Airfix kit) for the GWR version > I want the BR version (like the Airfix kit) for the GWR version Well go out and buy one then - these are also produced by Bachmann. John. >> I want the BR version (like the Airfix kit) for the GWR version >>Well go out and buy one then - these are also produced by Bachmann. >> >>John. Bit of a money problem - especially since the thieves in the commons want to double my road tax > Bit of a money problem - especially since the thieves in the commons want > to double my road tax I'll second that; I just cannot believe the audacity of the greedy bas#ards with their over-generous expenses, and can barely believe they's accepted a pay increase in-line with inflation. John. > Thinking about the size of Black 5 > Hall? > B1? > Black 5? > BR 5MT? > EE 37? > What do you think B16/1. Or a V2 if you must have something you can buy RTR. Speaking of V2s, I saw Golden Arrow at Shildon the other week. Very impressive. Evening Star was also there - pity about the copper-top chimney though. SignatureJades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web. nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address! >>B16/1. Or a V2 if you must have something you can buy RTR. >> >>Speaking of V2s, I saw Golden Arrow at Shildon the other week. Very >>impressive. Evening Star was also there - pity about the copper-top >>chimney though. Just a general wondering, I find uk.railway odd and I am sure modellers put more thought in. So what has happened to Evening Stars chimney? That is my favourite steam class and 3rd favourite loco class >>>B16/1. Or a V2 if you must have something you can buy RTR. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >So what has happened to Evening Stars chimney? He's saying he doesn't like Swindon. >That is my favourite steam class and 3rd favourite loco class The 9Fs were built at Swindon and Crewe. The bean counters who didn't know what they were doing noticed that castings were cheaper at Crewe and machining cheaper at Swindon. So they moved Swindon's casting to Crewe and Crewe's machining to Swindon. And wondered why machining costs went up. Turned out Swindon's castings were more accurate and had needed less machining. The 9Fs were very effective but I never liked them. Of the modern engines my favourites were the class 2MT, both Ivatt and BR versions. Hawksworth used the 8F as the basis for the County 4-6-0s. He'd also planned a lightweight 4-4-0 based on the Ivatt class 2 which would probably have been a very nice little engine but not as effective as the 2-6-0. >>>So what has happened to Evening Stars chimney? >>He's saying he doesn't like Swindon. Is that possible? But then living on SW midlands/ north end of Westcountry that is what happens >>>That is my favourite steam class and 3rd favourite loco class >>The 9Fs were built at Swindon and Crewe. The bean counters who didn't >>know what they were doing noticed that castings were cheaper at Crewe >>and machining cheaper at Swindon. >>So they moved Swindon's casting to Crewe and Crewe's machining to >>Swindon. And wondered why machining costs went up. Knobends! >>Turned out Swindon's castings were more accurate and had needed less >>machining. Sounds expected >>The 9Fs were very effective but I never liked them. Of the modern >>engines my favourites were the class 2MT, both Ivatt and BR versions. Liked them from a small child >>Hawksworth used the 8F as the basis for the County 4-6-0s. He'd also >>planned a lightweight 4-4-0 based on the Ivatt class 2 which would >>probably have been a very nice little engine but not as effective as >>the 2-6-0. > What do you think GER Class S69: "1500"s, v nice in original GER Blue Tri-ang used to make a BR version as R150 regards roga >> What do you think > >GER Class S69: "1500"s, v nice in original GER Blue > >Tri-ang used to make a BR version as R150 That was the Gresley rebuild (actually by Thompson when he was at Stratford). It wouldn't have appeared in GER blue. In spite of my dislike for Thompson's work, it was a very good engine. >regards > >roga "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message > That was the Gresley rebuild (actually by Thompson when he was at > Stratford). It wouldn't have appeared in GER blue. It did on my boyhood layout! BTW I am actually aware that R150 was of an original built in 1928 an example of the third variant of the LNER B12, however 61572 is always thought of as a "1500" : see e.g. www.wandering1500.co.uk Have the NNR \ M&GN ever painted her in blue I wonder? Roga >> What do you think > >GER Class S69: "1500"s, v nice in original GER Blue > >Tri-ang used to make a BR version as R150 and L&NE green, as 8509 (i can still remember that.. :) 'course, that was the "Gresley" (actually Thompson, I believe) rebuilt version ("B12/3" in L&NE-speak), not the original Holden machine, and it'd not be trival to convert the model to represent the original design (though I bet there's an article somewhere in the old RMs or MRCs by someone who did it[1]). I suspect Hornby might still be making the B12/3. They certainly were a couple of years ago. On the same theme: L&NW "Prince" (a Tishy would be nice, too :) SignatureAndy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) > and it'd not be trival to convert the model > to represent the original design (though I bet there's an > article somewhere in the old RMs or MRCs by someone who > did it[1]). In the '70 nearly every kit for a 10- wheeler seemed to be based in the Triang B12 chassis Plenty of them on ebay BTW roga >> and it'd not be trival to convert the model >> to represent the original design (though I bet there's an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >In the '70 nearly every kit for a 10- wheeler seemed to be based in the >Triang B12 chassis My Wills Saint. Back in those days I thought it was brilliant even though the wheelbase was completely wrong. Anybody who built a scale chassis must have had to slice off the splashers and move them. >Plenty of them on ebay BTW > >roga >> and it'd not be trival to convert the model >> to represent the original design (though I bet there's an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >In the '70 nearly every kit for a 10- wheeler seemed to be based in the >Triang B12 chassis I was thinking more of the previous era, when Jubilees were produced by the "take one Tri-ang Princess and a hacksaw" method.. SignatureAndy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) > Tri-ang used to make a BR version as R150 And terrible it was too. Try laying one on a scale drawing of one the rebuilt B12s and you'll see how many compromises were made with the model. John. |
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