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Model Forum / General / Railroads / October 2008Any new RTR locos for 2009?...
With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be promised for next year, Bachmann (both 2 and 4mm) still have enough already promised from 2008 to take them into 2010, Hornby seem to be up to date but many are screaming out for re-releases and re-liveries - could be a lean year or two, something we've not seen since the early 1980s...  SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be promised > for next year, Bachmann (both 2 and 4mm) still have enough already > promised from 2008 to take them into 2010, Hornby seem to be up to date > but many are screaming out for re-releases and re-liveries - could be a > lean year or two, something we've not seen since the early 1980s... Or could go the other way. Manufacturers/distributers/marketeers have got to work harder to get us to spend on their products rather than less essential bits like washing up liquid ? Cheers, Simon > With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be > promised for next year, I'm not being pedantic but I think you mean "promised next year for delivery in the following year(s)"? Hornby's Standard 4 is already well on the way I think. (kim) > Hornby's Standard 4 is already well on the way I think. It'll need to be *really* good to beat Bachmann's new version, which proved good enough to tempt me. I can tell from the pre-production images that Hornby's model will have better backhead detail, but to be honest I think that's totally wasted - you can barely see inside the cab with the tender attached. John. >> Hornby's Standard 4 is already well on the way I think. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > John. But hasnt there been lots of quibbling that Bachmanns Standard 4 is not up to top quality in reproducing the prototype ? Interesting that they decided to stick with the 8 pin decoder connection in this one - has the 21 pin not been well received ? cheers, Simon > But hasnt there been lots of quibbling that Bachmanns Standard 4 is not up > to top quality in reproducing the prototype ? Not from my customers. I don't see anything significantly wrong with it and it fits in nicely with the Bachmann family of Standards. > Interesting that they decided to stick with the 8 pin decoder connection > in this one - has the 21 pin not been well received ? I think there are a lot of 8-pin decoders in the market place and the 21-pin jobbie is (I believe) only intended for locos which will eventually be released with sound decoders. It doesn't bother me which decoder socket they have, as long as it's not that silly Hornby 4-pin effort used in their base digital locos. John. >> But hasnt there been lots of quibbling that Bachmanns Standard 4 is not >> up to top quality in reproducing the prototype ? > > Not from my customers. I don't see anything significantly wrong with it > and it fits in nicely with the Bachmann family of Standards. True theres nothing 'significantly wrong' although position of buffers on buffer beam might upset a few people. >> Interesting that they decided to stick with the 8 pin decoder connection >> in this one - has the 21 pin not been well received ? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John. Would bother me if had to pay extra £3 cos only wanted 8 pin decoder. So how do they decide what will and what wont go for sound fitting? G2 will but standard 4 wont ? cheers, Simon > >> But hasnt there been lots of quibbling that Bachmanns Standard 4 is not > >> up to top quality in reproducing the prototype ? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > So how do they decide what will and what wont go for sound fitting? G2 will > but standard 4 wont ? It is probably at least in part based on how much space there is inside the model. A standard 4 has quite a narrow boiler, and most of the tender options are quite small and low, meaning it would be hard to find somewhere to fit a speaker. > >> Hornby's Standard 4 is already well on the way I think. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Interesting that they decided to stick with the 8 pin decoder connection in > this one - has the 21 pin not been well received ? What do you suggest they connect the other 13 pins to? Unless all the wiring and infrastructure is already in place to allow a drop in sound retro-fit then 8 pins is perfectly adequate for most steam outline. MBQ >> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote >> "kim" wrote [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > wiring and infrastructure is already in place to allow a drop in sound > retro-fit then 8 pins is perfectly adequate for most steam outline. And who would ever need more RAM than 640K? ;-) SignatureMartin S. >>> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote >>> "kim" wrote [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >And who would ever need more RAM than 640K? ;-) My first PC was an Amstrad with only 512K memory and had an 8 megahertz 8086, which was better than the 4.77 of the IBM PCs of the day. There was an aftermarket kit to upgrade it to 640K which included 9 x 128kbit chips and instructions to break a particular PCB link on the mother board, with the warning that this invalidated any warranty on the machine. Those were the days. It had two floppy disk drives until I added a 32 megabyte hard card - a disk drive on an expansion card. > "manatba...@hotmail.com" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > And who would ever need more RAM than 640K? ;-) And your point is? Did I say no one needs 21 pin decoders? Why would they fit a 21 pin socket IN THIS PARTICULAR LOCO, if there is nothing to connect the extra features to and an 8 pin is perfectly adequate? MBQ >> "manatba...@hotmail.com" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote "kim" wrote [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > MBQ SignatureMartin S.. >>> "manatba...@hotmail.com" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote "kim" wrote [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >> MBQ Sorry, I meant to hit Cancel rather than Send. SignatureMartin S. >>> "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote >>> "kim" wrote [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > And who would ever need more RAM than 640K? ;-) My 1982 IBM PC came with 64K of ram and sockets for an additional 32K. The 5K hard drive was an expensive upgrade! >> And who would ever need more RAM than 640K? ;-) >> > My 1982 IBM PC came with 64K of ram and sockets for an additional 32K. > The 5K hard drive was an expensive upgrade! Yes, several hundred Canuck dollars IIRC. Our first office IBM PC had 256K, 2 full-height floppy drives and a 9" monochrome monitor. Cost about $3000. SignatureMartin S. On Oct 19, 11:18 pm, "simon" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote: > "John Turner" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > in > this one - has the 21 pin not been well received ? What do you suggest they connect the other 13 pins to? Unless all the wiring and infrastructure is already in place to allow a drop in sound retro-fit then 8 pins is perfectly adequate for most steam outline. MBQ You are a snappy lot, again taking the wrong emphasis - but it may not be my fault even if everyone does it. Will add a bit of background. In recent times, Bachmann have taken to fitting a 21 pin plug despite there being very few 21 pin decoders. If you want to fit an 8 pin decoder then its £3 to buy adapter. Now there was a bit of a hoo har about this when these first appeared. So here we have a new tooling super duper (apparently) loco. Been in development for 18 months at least - no rush job this one - yet theyve gone back to the 8 pin plug. I merely wonder why ? But if you want to quibble about any other comment have made (or might have) then dont let my question distract. Cheers, Simon > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > £3 to buy adapter. > Now there was a bit of a hoo har about this when these first appeared. Were any of the extra pins actually connected, e.g. to lights that didn't work if you used an 8 pin decoder? If not, then it was a strange decision. Probably a new entrant to DCC thinking the 21 pin interface was the new standard and they'd better use it. I model in N, where 6 pins are the norm for steam outline, so I didn't pay too much attention at the time. > So here we have a new tooling super duper (apparently) loco. Been in > development for 18 months at least - no rush job this one - yet theyve gone > back to the 8 pin plug. > > I merely wonder why ? But if you want to quibble about any other comment > have made (or might have) then dont let my question distract. Being gracious, I would say they learned from the customer feedback. MBQ > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > £3 to buy adapter. > Now there was a bit of a hoo har about this when these first appeared. >Were any of the extra pins actually connected, e.g. to lights that >didn't work if you used an 8 pin decoder? If not, then it was a >strange decision. Probably a new entrant to DCC thinking the 21 pin >interface was the new standard and they'd better use it. I model in N, >where 6 pins are the norm for steam outline, so I didn't pay too much >attention at the time. I'm sorry, youve lost me here. > So here we have a new tooling super duper (apparently) loco. Been in > development for 18 months at least - no rush job this one - yet theyve [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I merely wonder why ? But if you want to quibble about any other comment > have made (or might have) then dont let my question distract. Being gracious, I would say they learned from the customer feedback. MBQ erm, we are talking about Bachmann. Cheers, Simon > Were any of the extra pins actually connected, e.g. to lights that didn't work if you used an 8 pin decoder? If not, then it was a strange decision. Probably a new entrant to DCC thinking the 21 pin interface was the new standard and they'd better use it. I model in N, where 6 pins are the norm for steam outline, so I didn't pay too much attention at the time. You cannot simply plug an 8-pin decoder into the 21-pin interface - they are totally different. The 21-pin arrangement was devised by ESU (I think) and is designed to permit additional functions where sound decoders are likely to be used. In that respect IF it is likely to become the norm then I would have thought that it would make sense for it to be fitted as standard throughout Bachmann's range, but for non-sound purposes 8-pin generally permits enough function options. John. > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You cannot simply plug an 8-pin decoder into the 21-pin interface - they are > totally different. I know, you use an adapter, but it doesn't alter my question. If you used the adapter and 8 pin decoder, did you lose functions that were accessible to a 21 pin decoder? If not, then there was no point fitting the 21 pin socket. Only if the 21 pin socket was wired for sound and a speaker was already fitted at the factory or suitable mounting points provided would it make sense. MBQ > I know, you use an adapter, but it doesn't alter my question. If you used the adapter and 8 pin decoder, did you lose functions that were accessible to a 21 pin decoder? I'm not completely sure with all makes, but in the case of Lenz both their Silver (8-pin) and Silver 21 (21-pin) decoders offer junst 4-functions. The 21-pin socket is designed to offer more functions where an appropriate (multi-function) decoder is fitted. This is particularly useful where multi-function sound decoders are used. The extra pins in that instance access the other decoder (not loco) functions. John. > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > John. <sigh>I understand all that! The question is, in the specific case of the Bachmann loco in question, were any of the extra poles of the 21 pin connector actually wired to anything? MBQ > The question is, in the specific case of the Bachmann loco in question, were any of the extra poles of the 21 pin connector actually wired to anything? Not as far as I can tell. Why would you need more with a non-sound equipped model steam loco without lights? John. > With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be promised > for next year I heard a little rumour today that one of the major manufacturers has been negotiating with the NRM and NELPG for assistance in producing either a Q6 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0. If this is true then either or both would be an extremely welcome development. John. >> With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be promised >> for next year [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0. If this is true then either or both would be an >extremely welcome development. if your interested in a 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0, if not its a manufacturing slot taken up by something you dont want Aw > if your interested in a 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0, if not its a manufacturing > slot taken up by something you dont want Oh indeed, but us poor souls in the north of England have had to put up with plenty of unwanted stuff Southern stuff over recent years, so maybe it's out turn for a change! John. >> if your interested in a 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0, if not its a >> manufacturing slot taken up by something you dont want > > Oh indeed, but us poor souls in the north of England have had to put > up with plenty of unwanted stuff Southern stuff over recent years, so > maybe it's out turn for a change! They could do a Deltic or an A4 or a Flying Scotsman :o) (kim) > They could do a Deltic or an A4 or a Flying Scotsman :o) LOL - not much use on a small branchline or freight oritentated layout! :-) John. >> They could do a Deltic or an A4 or a Flying Scotsman :o) > >LOL - not much use on a small branchline or freight oritentated layout! :-) How about a GWR saddle tank? Some of these lasted into BR days. Two 850s that did were 1925 and 2007. Considering that these didn't normally carry "Great Western", just the number, a plain green one covers an awfully long time. One of these late survivors carried it for a film, but that was all. They could use the same chassis for a small pannier as well. Just a change from my usual rant about the Duke/Bulldog/Dukedog group providing four engines for the tooling costs of two. >John. >>> They could do a Deltic or an A4 or a Flying Scotsman :o) >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Just a change from my usual rant about the Duke/Bulldog/Dukedog group > providing four engines for the tooling costs of two. Well yes I was going to suggest everyone model only the GWR but John might have thought I was being sarcastic? (Perish the thought). Kim >>>> They could do a Deltic or an A4 or a Flying Scotsman :o) >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Well yes I was going to suggest everyone model only the GWR but John might >have thought I was being sarcastic? (Perish the thought). I know I'm a GWR bigot but I couldn't think of a similar situation on the other lines. In the US some of Bachmann's offerings come with alternative wood/steel cab and other fittings in the box, as well as painted but undecorated to apply your own decals for different periods. So they could include long or short smoke box, and safety valve cover with or without top feed. Narrow or wide cab. Or removable top feed for the Duke. Giving even more possibilities for the buyer. And selling more models. I'd also like to see other industrials than the Austerity. Preferably some of the older ones which survived. My own favourite would be a Manning Wardle Class K or L - which many of the main lines inherited. >Kim > I'd also like to see other industrials than the Austerity. Preferably > some of the older ones which survived. My own favourite would be a > Manning Wardle Class K or L - which many of the main lines inherited. There are other potential industrials available in RTR form, but all (to the best of my knowledge) ex-BR locos. Jinties, Claytons, diesel of classes 03, 08 & 20 (just to mention a few) all found use in industry. John. >> I'd also like to see other industrials than the Austerity. Preferably >> some of the older ones which survived. My own favourite would be a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John. A Royal Scot was used on shunting duties at Donisthorpe Colliery in derbyshire for a couple weeks. So can we stretch to a Pacific - yep its my .... cheers, Simon <snip> > if your interested in a 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0, if not its a > manufacturing > slot taken up by something you dont want Well that's true of any model, no doubt people are hanging on baited breath for the Bachmann Craven DMU, or the BR(s) fan is doing like wise with the 4Cep but both are a waste of time for the (G)WR enthusiast! Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > <snip> >> if your interested in a 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0, if not its a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > wise with the 4Cep but both are a waste of time for the (G)WR > enthusiast! The 4CEPs were refurbished at Swindon works before it closed so lots of CEPs being hauled to/from on the Western. Probably more realistic as most layouts probably won't have 3rd rail modelled. Chris <snip> > The 4CEPs were refurbished at Swindon works before it closed so lots > of CEPs being hauled to/from on the Western. Probably more realistic > as most layouts probably won't have 3rd rail modelled. Assuming it's the correct Cep, if the Bachmann model is actually of the original Kent coast ones then yes but not if it's anything later as it would be the wrong body type going to and coming back (from Swindon).... </anorak> :~P > <snip> >> The 4CEPs were refurbished at Swindon works before it closed so lots [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as it would be the wrong body type going to and coming back (from > Swindon).... </anorak> :~P They are making the unrefurbished ones so OK going to Swindon but coming back they would be wrong as the windows were changed, the brake ends by cabs became passenger accommodation and the composite trailer became a brake composite corridor. A lot also came out with the LSE Jaffa Cake livery Chris >>> With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be promised >>> for next year [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0. If this is true then either or both would be an >>extremely welcome development. T2 - yes, that makes sense. Long-lived, successful and ubiquitous across quite a wide area of the country. The K1 - and here I'm assuming you mean the Thompson/Peppercorn machine, not the small-boilered Gresley one - I don't quite see. It's a late type, restricted to a narrow range of periods. Surely a K2 would be a more obvious choice - they were active for a much longer period (spanning three railways) and were prominent features of aome of the model modellable locations (do 'em with the GNR cab and with the NER-style one used for the Lochs and there's quite wide appeal). The K1 just seems and odd - and limited - choice. SignatureAndy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) > T2 - yes, that makes sense. Long-lived, successful and ubiquitous across > quite a wide area of the country. The K1 - and here I'm assuming you mean > the Thompson/Peppercorn machine, not the small-boilered Gresley one - I > don't quite see. Certainly my preference would be for a Q6 even though I have an extremely nice scratch-built example, but the Thompson K1 would also be a good choice bearing in mind that there is an active preserved example, which has done mainline running in Scotland as well as on the NYMR. John. >> With the economic situation I wonder what if anything new will be >> promised for next year [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > producing either a Q6 0-8-0 or a K1 2-6-0. If this is true then > either or both would be an extremely welcome development. The Q6 would be nice but I'm sure an O4 would go down better and have far more sales opportunity - even the GWR enthusiast would have a use for it, never mind those followers of the old GC. Of course it could be an attempt to compete with or use components from the recent G2... SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > Of course it could be an attempt to compete with or use components from > the recent G2... Very little interchangeable parts between models these days Jerry. I doubt very little apart from motor would be common between a G2 and Q6. John. |
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