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Model Forum / General / Railroads / November 2008Telev. Interf.
Hi I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My television aerial is inside. All my locomotives are supressed, but now I have gone onto a diggy box & every time I run my loco's the picture pixilates on the tele. Do I have to move the aerial to the outside or can I supress further. I have about 40 loco's. Can anybody help please. Roger. > Hi > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > aerial to the outside or can I supress further. I have about 40 > loco's. Can anybody help please. Roger. You would be best to have an outside aerial for [1], I assume you mean DVB-T (Freeview) irrespective of your model railway, you might even need to renew the down lead to - it's quite possible that you are also in a marginal reception area at the moment (again I assume you are not is an already switched over area)... [1] possibly also having it on an extended pole to get the aerial as high as possible  SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... Roger Mitchell said the following on 18/11/2008 11:01: > Hi > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My > television aerial is inside. All my locomotives are supressed, but now I > have gone onto a diggy box & every time I run my loco's the picture > pixilates on the tele. Do I have to move the aerial to the outside or can I > supress further. I have about 40 loco's. Can anybody help please. Roger. Generally for digital reception you would need an outside aerial anyway. Some digiboxes are also more susceptible to interference than others - I threw away a cheap Lidl jobby in favour of a better brand and I have no more problems using the same aerial and downlead. Do I need to mention about keeping track and wheels clean? If you're running 50 year old Hornby-Dublo on filthy track then you'll be transmitting interference all the way to Norway :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ On Nov 18, 11:01 am, "Roger Mitchell" <barbaramitche...@tesco.net> wrote: > Hi > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My > television aerial is inside. All my locomotives are supressed, but now I > have gone onto a diggy box & every time I run my loco's the picture > pixilates on the tele. Do I have to move the aerial to the outside or can I > supress further. I have about 40 loco's. Can anybody help please. Roger. Get the correct aerial fitted outside, with good quality downlead from the aerial to the box. Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal. Almost all cases of TV interference (analogue or digital) are due to poor receiving equipment, rather than the source of the interference itself. MBQ <snip> > Get the correct aerial fitted outside, with good quality No doubt a 'digital' aerial?.... > downlead from the aerial to the box. Correct means to Indeed, the downlead is often forgotten about. > suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which > will not be the same as the analogue signal. Ignorant fucktard (you don't work for a cowboy digital aerial rigger do you, it's the sort of bollocks they come out with[1]), that is totally wrong, the polarization (aerial grouping) stays the same, although at this time (until switch over is complete) some locations will benefit from a high gain aerial. [1] think about it, if the aerial grouping is different between analogue and DVB-T transmissions how could one use one aerial and switch between analogue and DVB-T services?!... SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ignorant fucktard You have such a way with words! > (you don't work for a cowboy digital aerial rigger > do you, it's the sort of bollocks they come out with[1]), that is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > analogue and DVB-T transmissions how could one use one aerial and > switch between analogue and DVB-T services?!... No, you think about it. Why do so many people get poor digital reception when they try to persist in using an aerial optimised for the analogue channels in their area? TV in the UK is transmitted on a range of UHF frequencies known as channels, from 21 to 68. These are divided into "groups" which each cover a range of channels (polarization is a different variable). The idea is that adjacent transmitters use different bands in order to avoid interference. For the best reception, you buy an aerial for then band appropriate to the transmitter you want to receive from. Digital services can and do (but not everywheer) use different bands to the analogue services so an aerial that may work perfectly well for analogue may give sub-optimal results for digital. Sometimes a wideband (group W) aerial is specified but this will only ever be a compromise, designed to make a reasonable job of receiving all channels, compared to the correct group aerial. Digital TV is much more "all or nothing" compared to the gradual degredation of an analogue signal, hence the advice to fit the aerial ouotside and as high as possible to ensure the best possible reception. I think an apology is called for. MBQ On 18/11/2008 15:51, manatbandq@hotmail.com said, > I think an apology is called for. (Turns blue whilst holding breath :-) ) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ <snip> > I think an apology is called for. Go ahead then fucktard, I'm waiting! Sorry but you are completely wrong, there is no such thing as a digital aerial, just aerial groups and those groups stay the, if you are correct then I should not be able to receive DVB-T as my location is off the DVB-T map currently due to the power restrictions having to be applied to our transmitter, not only do I have a '9' signal strength but I have little picture break up and perfect compatibility with analogue reception [1] - all this with a aerial and downlead that must be 30 years old.... As I said, some people will benefit from a high gain aerial due to low signal power but that is not because it's a digital signal but because the transmitter is operating on low(er) power than it will once the full analogue switch off occurs nationwide. The whole system was designed to use the same frecking aerial groups for so as allow compatibility and gradual switch over - to paraphrase the advice given out by groups like Digital TV Group (trade) or DigitalUK etc, there is no need to change your aerial just because you are now using a Freeview receiver/STB, only 5 to 10% (fixed) aerials will need to be changed. So yes, I'm waiting for YOUR apology... [1] and what I do have can be put down to the age of the aerial and downlead and *not* the aerial group. SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Sorry but you are completely wrong, there is no such thing as a > digital aerial, So why did you mention them? I said you need "the correct" aerial. I never said anything about "digital" aerials. Now who looks silly? > just aerial groups and those groups stay the, if you Stay the what? In some areas of the country there are frequency conflicts and one or more of the digital multiplexes have to be transmitted on a channel outside that areas normal group. That's when a wideband aerial is recommended. > The whole system was designed to use the same frecking aerial groups > for so as allow compatibility and gradual switch over - to paraphrase > the advice given out by groups like Digital TV Group (trade) or > DigitalUK etc, there is no need to change your aerial just because you > are now using a Freeview receiver/STB, only 5 to 10% (fixed) aerials > will need to be changed. I never stated what proportion of aerials may need to be changed. > So yes, I'm waiting for YOUR apology... See Paul Boyd's reply. > [1] and what I do have can be put down to the age of the aerial and > downlead and *not* the aerial group. Fine. That's your situation explained. Others will have different problems. Many will have no problems at all. MBQ <snip> > So why did you mention them? I said you need "the correct" aerial. I > never said anything about "digital" aerials. Now who looks silly? You mentioned needing a new aerial for *digital* broadcasts, saying that digital will not work with existing aerials [1]. Just face it, you know f.ck all about this, the fact that you throw around words like 'Wideband' proves that, do you know what a wideband aerial is? Clue, if a wideband aerial won't work nothing will, but it will never work as well as the correct 'group' aerial matched to the polarization of the relevant transmitter... [1] <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" I still like the old tried & trusted method of having the wife hold the aerial (bit of bent coat hanger ) out the window :-) Back to the post ...... Try an outside aerial, if you are OK at DIY & ladders use the old one ! New bit of well shilded coax cable might not go a miss. You could spend £100's and still get problems. Back in the old days of CB radio I had problems with next door's TV " Your CB puts herring bones on it". I tried everything but still no joy. Then went to look at his TV and found it was an old, very old, Black & White one they had been using since Adam was a lad. My problem is with these motor scooters, can you buy spike strips on Ebay ? Chris > I still like the old tried & trusted method of having the wife hold > the aerial (bit of bent coat hanger ) out the window :-) LOL! As a kid, despite living only a few miles, as the crow flies, from Emley Moor (in West Yorkshire), but in the shadow of a hill, we couldn't get a decent picture with Yorkshire TV for years, until a relay station was opened. We had to make do with Tyne-Tees. Occasionally, there would be some special regional programme, and the coat hanger would come out in a desperate attempt to watch it. MBQ > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You mentioned needing a new aerial for *digital* broadcasts, saying > that digital will not work with existing aerials [1]. In the specific case of the OPs existing aerial which clearly doesn't work. I clearly didn't say that digital will never work with an existing aerial. It very often does, as witnessed by the many people, including myself, who receive freeview through their old aerials. What I didn't say was "buy a *digital* aerial". You were the one who introduced "digital" aerials to the conversation (quote "No doubt a 'digital' aerial?....". OK, maybe that was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but why then go on about them (quote "there is no such thing as a digital aerial") when no one but you even mentioned them? I told the OP, who's existing aerial is obviously not suitable either due to location (in the loft) or type or age of aerial or downlead, to get the "correct" aerial fitted outside with decent quality downlead. This may be as simple as moving his existing aerial outside. I never mentioned any need for a *new* aerial for digital. I did, however, leave that possibility open. I credit the OP with the intelligence to be able to do a bit more research and determine what is *needed*, or come back and ask for further advice. > Just face it, > you know f.ck all about this, the fact that you throw around words > like 'Wideband' proves that, do you know what a wideband aerial is? Yes, do you? > Clue, if a wideband aerial won't work nothing will, but it will never > work as well as the correct 'group' aerial matched to the polarization > of the relevant transmitter... As I said "Sometimes a wideband (group W) aerial is specified but this will only ever be a compromise". The clue is in the word "compromise", i.e., it will not work as well as the correct group aerial. At least we agree on something. > [1] <quote> > "Correct means to suit the channels used for > digital TV in your area, which will not be the > same as the analogue signal." > </quote> So I should have said "may not" rather than "will not". I think it's clear from subsequent posts that's what I meant, e.g. when I said "In some areas of the country there are frequency conflicts and one or more of the digital multiplexes have to be transmitted on a channel outside that areas normal group". MBQ <snip> > In the specific case of the OPs existing aerial which > clearly doesn't work. <snip the rest of your clap-trap> But it does, he is receiving DVB-T, all he will probably need to do is move the existing aerial outside - his complaint is about interference due to the aerials close proximity to an interference source, not that he can't receive DVB-T broadcasts, he could have a new aerial (of the correct group, lined up with millimetre accuracy) and still have interference if the aerial is bang next door to the source of the interference! SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > But it does, he is receiving DVB-T, I think "doesn't work" is a reasonable description of not being able to recieve correctly (i.e. suffering from pixellation). If you want to take pedantry to new heights, go ahead. We'll all have a laugh when you fall. MBQ <snip more claptrap> > If you want to take pedantry to new heights, go ahead. > We'll all have a laugh when you fall. Stop talking about yourself cretin, try reading the OP before you prove that not only are you a worthless retard idiot but you can't read either, the problem only occurs when the model railway is in use, the rest of the time the picture is OK - this is an _interference problem_ and *not a reception problem* - even with a new aerial there could still be interference issues if he is running badly suppressed electric motors etc. <to quote the OP [my accentuation]> I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My television aerial is inside. All my locomotives are supressed, but now I have gone onto a diggy box & **_every time I run my loco's the picture pixilates on the tele._** Do I have to move the aerial to the outside or can I supress further. I have about 40 loco's. Can anybody help please. </quote> > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Stop talking about yourself cretin, <sigh> > try reading the OP before you > prove that not only are you a worthless retard idiot but you can't > read either, the problem only occurs when the model railway is in use, > the rest of the time the picture is OK - this is an _interference > problem_ and *not a reception problem* It's a problem of the current receiving equipment being unable to discriminate between the desired signal and "interference". At the moment it's due to the model railway, tomorrow it could be from some new activity of a neighbour. Either way, the receiving equipment needs fixing. > - even with a new aerial there Indeed, that's why he was advised to move the aerial and not just replace it with a new one in the same position. At the same time he was advised to ensure it's the correct aerial for digital transmissions in his area. Despite what you think, some multiplexes in some areas DO NOT use the same channel group as analogue transmissions in that area. Hence he needs to check the situation in his area before committing himself to any expense. > could still be interference issues if he is running badly suppressed > electric motors etc. So why didn't you suggest checking the effectiveness of the suppression if you think that's the real problem? MBQ <snip trolling clap-trap> FOAD you worthless retard, and find out the difference between reception problems and interference problems - clue, the OP could have a new aerial (of the correct group, not just a 'do-it-all' wide-band that you suggest), have it aligned to the millimetre, have clear line of sight to the TX mast and a picture quality that puts the studio output monitor to shame but STILL have interference due to the close proximity of the interference source when it's in use. Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:99178f8a-ba36-45f8-9e0f-6d46ff979dc7@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > FOAD you worthless retard, I'd Rather be a retard than brain dead. MBQ On Nov 19, 3:00 pm, "Jerry" <INVA...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote: > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'd Rather be a retard than brain dead. Unfortunately for you, this thread has proved beyond doubt that you are both, not only have you proved that you are retarded as to understanding DVB-T broadcasts but you are brain dead in accepting that you are grossly ignorant on the subject... If we all had to put new aerials up for DVB-T most would not bother, we would be putting put a DVB-S dishes up instead! SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that you are grossly ignorant on the subject... If we all had to put > new aerials up for DVB-T most would not bother Yet another Straw Man. Where did I say that all would need to put up new aerials? MBQ <snip> > Another Straw Man. Where did I say that all would > need to put up new aerials? In your original reply, way up; <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> You really don't understand the fundamentals of DVB-T, you have either been brainwashed by the rouge aerial installers or you are a rouge installer yourself, unless you really are as thick as two short planks of course (apologies to short planks!)... :~( SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > installer yourself, unless you really are as thick as two short planks > of course (apologies to short planks!)... :~( Red-faced aerial installers? Whatever next... SignatureBruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney UK "I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance." (Peter Kay) <snip> > Red-faced aerial installers? Whatever next... They will be when Trading Standards step forward when they present the bill for work not required to the (apparently) 'dithering and half-dotty old lady'!... SignatureWikipedia: the Internet equivalent of Hyde Park and 'speakers corner'... > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > same as the analogue signal." > </quote> Which bit of my more recent post 'So I should have said "may not" rather than "will not"' are you struggling with? MBQ <snipped> > Which bit of my more recent post 'So I should have said > "may not" rather than "will not"' are you struggling with? Try changing your posting history why not, you said what you said; <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Try changing your posting history why not, you said what you said; I'm not trying to change the history at all, merely pointing out that I corrected myself later. MBQ > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Try changing your posting history why not, you said what you said; > I'm not trying to change the history at all, merely pointing > out that I corrected myself later. But only after I had pointed out the fact that you were wrong, had you known the facts you would not have said what you did originally - or are you suggesting that you were deliberately miss informing people?... You said what you said; <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> ...and I will carry on posting it until *you* apologise, or better still, f*ck off. Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > ...and I will carry on posting it until *you* apologise, or better > still, f*ck off. OK, I apologise, for crediting you with the intelligence to be able to hold a civil conversation or read through the thread and read what was written. In the immediate post after you called me an "ignorant fucktard" I wrote "Digital services can and do (but not everywheer) use different bands to the analogue services". It's quite clear to anyone with half a brain that I was not saying everyone would need a new aerial or that an existing aerial would never work. Later, I posted an explicit correction, since it was obvious you were too stupid to comprehend or were deliberately choosing to put your own interpretation on it. It's very easy to call people names and hurl abuse when you're deliberately hiding your identity. Others will see you for what you are and make their own judgement. MBQ <snip> > OK, I apologise, for crediting you with the intelligence > to be able to hold a civil conversation or read through > the thread and read what was written. I have and this is what you said; <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > OK, I apologise, for crediting you with the intelligence to be able to > hold a civil conversation or read through the thread and read what was [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > deliberately hiding your identity. Others will see you for what you > are and make their own judgement. You're pissing into the wind, manatbandq. SignatureMartin S. > "manatba...@hotmail.com" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You're pissing into the wind, manatbandq. You're right. Jerry's words aren't worth much so I'll let him have the last one. MBQ In message <95ec49b7-9501-49dd-b7dd-193d2865caca@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, "manatbandq@hotmail.com" <manatbandq@hotmail.com> writes >> <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >MBQ I have decided to kill this thread in my newsreader. Grow up, children. SignatureJane British OO, American and Australian HO, and DCC in the garden http://www.yddraiggoch.demon.co.uk/railway/railway.html > Hi > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My > television aerial is inside. All my locomotives are supressed, but now I > have gone onto a diggy box & every time I run my loco's the picture > pixilates on the tele. Do I have to move the aerial to the outside or can I > supress further. I have about 40 loco's. Can anybody help please. Roger. The thing to bear in mind is that interference on freeview is more noticeable when it happens, known as the digital cliff. On analogue it just starts to get snowy. You may need to make changes to your aerial as there are number of anomaly's with the current frequency allocation which mean they are either low power or off of the optimum for the aerial group for analogue. This will be rectified when the switch over occurs in 2012. In the meantime pay a visit to http://www.dtg.org.uk and look at the retailer section fro recommendations for your transmitter. As an example in East Suffolk the ITV mux is very low powered out of Sudbury, so as not to interfere with Dutch TV, which makes reception marginal in bad weather regardless of aerial etc. Chris > > Hi > > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). My [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > which mean they are either low power or off of the optimum for the > aerial group for analogue. Don't tell Jerry that. MBQ On Nov 19, 9:29 pm, Chris <nos...@nospam.com> wrote: <snip> >> The thing to bear in mind is that interference on freeview is >> more noticeable when it happens, known as the digital cliff. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Don't tell Jerry that. So many retards were DVB-T is concerned... If the aerial is wrong you won't be able to receive *all* the muxs, if you can receive all the channels you should for your transmitter and there is no pixelisation or audio drop-outs then the aerial is OK, it's as simple as that. Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > there is no pixelisation or audio drop-outs then the aerial is OK, > it's as simple as that. Thanks for agreeing with us at last. MBQ <snip> > Thanks for agreeing with us at last. You arse-wipe, this is what YOU said; <quote> "Correct means to suit the channels used for digital TV in your area, which will not be the same as the analogue signal." </quote> Now fcuk off you clueless retard troll. Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" >> > Hi >> > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Don't tell Jerry that. I wouldn't tell Jerry the time of day. SignatureMartin S. >>> > Hi >>> > I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I wouldn't tell Jerry the time of day. Hi everybody Many thanks for all the advice. I think that it is a poor show about the varying opinions & the bad language & name calling. Surely us railway buffs are above all that sort of thing. I intend to up grade my down lead to the tele. After some experimenting this evening I find that on dry nights the pixilation is minimal. So on damp nights trains will not run because of the wrong type of damp. That sounds like playing with REAL trains. Many thanks every body Roger. >> Hi >> I live in a bungalow & I have my railway layout in the roof (all of it). [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Chris You may need to vent your roof space better ! Yes I agree it is a 'poor show' about the bad language & name calling :-( However I do find it hard to understand how one poster can post almost 19,000 posting in one month ....... then again it's not one poster is it ! Hope you manage to get your problem sorted. Chris <snip> > However I do find it hard to understand how one poster can post > almost > 19,000 posting in one month ....... then again it's not one poster > is > it ! Sounds like you need to learn how to use basic search terms! Signature"You obviously couldn't get a clue if you rolled in clue musk and performed the clue mating dance in the middle of a field full of horny clues at the height of the clue mating season!" > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of a field full of horny clues at the height of the > clue mating season!" Sounds like you need to learn some manners ! Unless your real name is 'Edward Flaherty' even your standard 'clue' quote is not yours ! May I suggest these to you :- "It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others" "Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact" Chris <snip trolling> Nothing left to reply too!.... |
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