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Model Forum / General / Railroads / March 2009World's biggest layout, Hamburg?
My son-in-law alerted me to this: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3253382.html?menu=news.quirkies http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/ Download video: http://www.miwula.tv/uploads/Image_20080722_1600.wmv  SignatureMartin S. >My son-in-law alerted me to this: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Download video: http://www.miwula.tv/uploads/Image_20080722_1600.wmv Thanks for the pointer. Fantastic video of an amazing layout. Think I'll have to pay it a visit. Andy C > >My son-in-law alerted me to this: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Andy C I visited it in Summer 07. They were still working on the (20' tall) Alps scene. :) It is spectacular, remember who its target audience is. My grandson (1 and a bit at the time) though it was wonderful. From a modellers viewpoint, a few things stood out. Firstly, the reliability. No derailments, no uncoupling, everything worked. The workshop would bring a tear to a scratchbuilders eye. And the helix that just went on and on and on .... Definitely worth a visit, even with the delay on entry. Steve Magee Newcastle NSW Aust > My son-in-law alerted me to this: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Download video: http://www.miwula.tv/uploads/Image_20080722_1600.wmv I wonder if it's finescale? <g> SignatureBruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney UK <http://claremont.islandblogging.co.uk> >> My son-in-law alerted me to this: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I wonder if it's finescale? <g> I was in the Metro this morning. All that catenary. Kevin >>> My son-in-law alerted me to this: >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kevin Cheered me up that did - Thanks! Mike > "Bruce Fletcher (remove dentures to reply)" wrote... >>> My son-in-law alerted me to this: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I was in the Metro this morning. All that catenary. Plus tunnels and enclosed stations! SignatureMartin S. Have you seen the facts page for the final layout in 2014 ? Leased Floorspace 6,000 m² Model Area over 1,800 m² Construction Areas 10 Track Length approx. 20,000 Meters ( to scale that's about 11,000 miles ?) Trains approx. 1,300 Wagons 15,000 over Longest Train 14.51m Signals 1,900 Switches 4,000 Computers 64 Lights over 500,000 Buildings and Bridges 6,000 Figures 300,000 Cars 10,000 Trees 330,000 Work Hours approx. 850,000 Staff 170 Construction Cost approx. 15,000,000 € I like the bit in 'Our Philosophy' " ...... For us, people are more important than money. People and employees aren’t factors and figures in our balance sheets, but unique individuals with different qualities and characters ..... " With all the technology they used for the world record for the longest train ever run on H0 tracks ie laser levels etc I wonder if they compensated for part of the track being in the shade and the other in sunlight ? Chris > Track Length approx. 20,000 Meters ( to scale that's about 11,000 > miles ?) 20KM x 87 = 1,740km = 1,075 scale miles > Trains approx. 1,300 > Wagons 15,000 over > Longest Train 14.51m 14.51 x 87 = 1,262m = 0.78 scale miles I saw a US "N" layout on YouTube with a freight train with 5 locos and 136 freight cars - approx. 1 scale mile long. CN freight trains run daily near my house with 2-4 locos and 160 cars. SignatureMartin S. > chris.bret...@o2.co.uk wrote: > > Track Length approx. 20,000 Meters ( to scale that's about 11,000 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > freight cars - approx. 1 scale mile long. CN freight trains run daily near > my house with 2-4 locos and 160 cars. Thank you Martin, dec' point in wrong place, but it has been a long day :-) Chris >I like the bit in 'Our Philosophy' " ...... For us, people are more >important than money. People and employees arent factors and figures >in our balance sheets, but unique individuals with different qualities >and characters ..... " >Chris If only all companies could ditch the "Human Resources" culture in favour of the old "Personnel." It was a great pity that they all acted like a lot of sheep, to place their people in the same category as equipment, furniture etc. I guess it made it easier for them to hire and fire, if they are simply reduced to numbers. Sorry for the OT rant but it's a real hobby-horse of mine. > If only all companies could ditch the "Human Resources" culture in favour of the > old "Personnel." It was a great pity that they all acted like a lot of sheep, > to place their people in the same category as equipment, furniture etc. I guess > it made it easier for them to hire and fire, if they are simply reduced to > numbers. Sorry for the OT rant but it's a real hobby-horse of mine. No apology needed. One of the companies I worked for used to use the 'threat' of involving 'Human Resources' all too often. Like most accountants, 'Human Resources' are a waste of space, time & money. It will be a long time B4 a piece of 'equipment' can build a layout like that, it would also need to be programmed with a sense of humour ( no accountant would allow that ! ). Years of experience now count for little ... they would rather reinvent the wheel again and pay someone a fat bonus. That is one of the reasons why model makers / hobbyist are frowned upon as they take a pride in their work, 'even' if it's 'just' the right lettering on a station sign. Chris It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog. > Years of experience now count for little ... they would rather > reinvent the wheel again and pay someone a fat bonus. A local man who worked for Peugot for 19 years before they shifted production to eastern europe was told when he applied for a new job he was now "too set in his ways" and they needed someone who was "more flexible" ie: changed jobs every five minutes. The journalists who reported the story were also told by their employer that their jobs efectively no longer existed but they could reapply for their old jobs back, listing which other tasks they were qualified to undertake. Do you see a pattern emerging? (kim) >> Years of experience now count for little ... they would rather >> reinvent the wheel again and pay someone a fat bonus. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Do you see a pattern emerging? Before retiring I worked for GPO/The Post Office/Royal Mail/Parcelforce/Consignia (pick any name, they all applied at different times). I was lucky and avoided this problem but I had many colleagues who "reapplied" for their jobs on regular occasions. One friend was told somebody else was better qualified. The somebody else got the job and then embezzled a large lump of dosh. SignatureKeith W (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living) > Before retiring I worked for GPO/The Post Office/Royal > Mail/Parcelforce/Consignia (pick any name, they all applied at > different times). I was lucky and avoided this problem but I had > many colleagues who "reapplied" for their jobs on regular occasions. One > friend was told somebody else was better qualified. The > somebody else got the job and then embezzled a large lump of dosh. Even further off-topic but may be of interest? A friend who recently retired from the Post Office with a tiny occupational pension had his pension credit cut off completely without any explanation by the DWP. After he complained to his local MP it was restored but at a much lower level than before and the DWP sent a letter to the MP claiming my friend had failed to inform them of an increase in his Post Office pension. After severeal internal investigations a tape-recording was discovered of the phone call in which he did inform the DWP of the increase. The DWP have since admitted in writing that they were totally wrong and he was totally right but refuse even to apologise. I'm not a expert in civil cases but have advised my friend to sue the DWP for defamation and libel on account of the letter they sent to his local MP. He is currently taking the matter up with Citizen's Advice. (kim) >> Before retiring I worked for GPO/The Post Office/Royal >> Mail/Parcelforce/Consignia (pick any name, they all applied at [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > of the letter they sent to his local MP. He is currently taking the matter > up with Citizen's Advice. Very interesting. I'd like to know how that one comes out. I'm sure their guidelines don't tell them to cut money off without first contacting the recipient, SignatureKeith W Sunbury on Thames (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living) but then I bet they don't know their own guidelines in the first place. What a way to run a railway - ahh that got us back on topic ;o) > Very interesting. I'd like to know how that one comes out. I'm > sure their guidelines don't tell them to cut money off without first > contacting the recipient, He received a written apology from the head of the DWP and £80 compensation for that on the same day they wrote to his MP falsely claiming he had not informed them of his change in circumstances. (kim) >>I like the bit in 'Our Philosophy' " ...... For us, people are more >>important than money. People and employees arent factors and figures in >>our balance sheets, but unique individuals with different qualities and >>characters ..... " [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > fire, if they are simply reduced to numbers. Sorry for the OT rant but > it's a real hobby-horse of mine. If only all companies ditched "personnel/human resources" completely, the savings would be huge. Keep a consultant (proper one, not a contractor) on hand for problems and get managers to actually manage their staff (bit a shock, I know - many couldn't cope and would need replacing with real leaders). If you don't think that's sensible, find out just what the recruitment process is at your work and ask recent recruits just how exactly HR contributed to the process, other than just being there and asking the odd pointless question. And look to see what proportion of meeting rooms are booked by HR and what each meeting actually achieves that couldn't be solved by a chat at the coffee machine. Subject the department to the same costs/processes audit that Engineering or Production or Sales have to go through. HR has become (apart from a standing joke) a self-perpetuating drain on scant resources - like Health & Safety, if there is no problem they will create one to justify their existence, to the point where other employees have no respect for them due to constant interference and lecturing on matters that are not work related (i.e. messing with staff's lifestyles). Sorry to rant, but I believe managers should manage, and be empowered to do so. Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb >HR has become (apart from a standing joke) a self-perpetuating drain on >scant resources - like Health & Safety, if there is no problem they will [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Cheers >Richard For my part, I'm well out of the rat race, though I saw it quite well established by the time I left. No argument from me over managers managing, though I guess you need someone to oversee company policy towards their staff.... yes staff... rather than the horrible term people. Especially necessary, with all the employment legislation now in place and you don't really want all your competent managers wasting their time, keeping up with the law. ATB Andy >> HR has become (apart from a standing joke) a self-perpetuating drain on >> scant resources - like Health & Safety, if there is no problem they will [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > necessary, with all the employment legislation now in place and you don't really > want all your competent managers wasting their time, keeping up with the law. Exactly. Do you want your best engineering/design/sales/etc people spending their time reading up on things like the exact rules and regulations for maternity leave, or the legal requirements for small print in job adverts? It seems a bit like the arguments we used to hear that IT departments shouldn't exist, because everyone should learn to fix and program their own computers. Or saying that managers could do their own filing and photocopying SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK Managers SHOULD be the one group of people who you can turn to if there if there is a problem you can’t fix, but most managers there days can’t do the job and are there, supposedly, to manage people. My former employers went ‘procedure’ mad so lets hope the ‘young rising stars’ of the future can have an original thought. I was told of one incident where one of our contractors staff was working away and the new middle manager started to tell him how to do his job. As the middle manager was lifted off the floor by his jacket lapels the contractor told him to be quiet or to go away ( or words to that effect ). I like layouts with a bit of humor etc. ( like the couple in the corn field ) or even the odd private joke built in. Ones that spring to mind are the ghost of a train spotter still plying his hobby from the comfort of the graveyard or the two lads sitting on a wall watching the loco’s, one wearing an Everton top , the other a Liverpool one. Chris It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog. > I was told of one incident where one of our contractors staff was > working away and the new middle manager started to tell him how to do > his job. As the middle manager was lifted off the floor by his jacket > lapels the contractor told him to be quiet or to go away ( or words to > that effect ). One of our customers had multiple, pointless management levels that did nothing but slow things down. When they had a massive redundancy round, one middle manager was left. It was very quickly blatantly obvious that without people above him telling him what to do, and people below him actually doing the doing, he didn't have any clue about how things worked whatsoever. The mystery was why he was still there instead of the people that could do the job. And no, I have nothing against managers, being a manager in a small company myself until it went bust a few weeks ago. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ > Managers SHOULD be the one group of people who you can turn to if > there if there is a problem you can’t fix, but most managers there > days can’t do the job and are there, supposedly, to manage people. And if the manager *is* the problem? At university we had a breakdown in relations with one lecturer. The mechanism for dealing with this was for us to raise our concerns with - yes, you guessed it... > My former employers went ‘procedure’ mad so lets hope the ‘young > rising stars’ of the future can have an original thought. If you don't follow procedure you can risk getting your backside firmly bitten. "We've never had anyone go on maternity leave before, so let's just sack her, it'll be easiest". "Fred says he doesn't want to work with any darkies, so best bin that job application straight away..." Some employers can have some funny ideas about what staff do outside work, which needs to be carefully watched ("you live near the office, you can just call in to do something quick on Sunday morning *can't you*? You can get back to the hospital where your sick child is afterwards"). > I was told of one incident where one of our contractors staff was > working away and the new middle manager started to tell him how to do > his job. As the middle manager was lifted off the floor by his jacket > lapels the contractor told him to be quiet or to go away ( or words to > that effect ). Once someone starts behaving like that, it isn't reasonable to expect other people to have to work with him, but the manager might feel too intimidated to act. Proper advice might make sure that such a contractor could be disposed of without legal complications and without anyone's safety being put at risk. At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do it! SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers >can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do it! That was not true when you promoted from within the ranks. Now companies believe it is always better to bring in graduates, with no practical experience, of course incompetence is a by-product. On the other hand, "the experienced" do need to be introduced to new methods, because it's all too easy to get stuck in a familiar rut, so as with all things, it's about getting the balance right. >> At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers >> can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do it! > > That was not true when you promoted from within the ranks. Could be problematic with new technology though. > Now companies believe > it is always better to bring in graduates, with no practical experience, of > course incompetence is a by-product. On the other hand, "the experienced" do > need to be introduced to new methods, because it's all too easy to get stuck in > a familiar rut, so as with all things, it's about getting the balance right. While I realise that hatred of formal education is firmly entrenched in England - the 'cult of the amateur' and all that - if you don't recruit graduates who are you going to recruit these days? I'm always reminded of a Finnish firm where a manager actually boasted about how many of his staff had what kind of paper qualifications, with just the same pride with which an Englishman talks about "university of life, me, school of hard knocks, ha ha ha". We buy the stuff they make, and they don't buy the stuff we make... I wouldn't expect a TOC MD to be able to drive a train, or someone who writes software for train toilet doors to be able to assist with confused old biddies on the platforms, or ticket sellers to be able to operate the signals. I wouldn't expect a CEO to have a full understanding of recruitment law small print. SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >I wouldn't expect a TOC MD to be able to drive a train, or someone who >writes software for train toilet doors to be able to assist with >confused old biddies on the platforms, or ticket sellers to be able to >operate the signals. I wouldn't expect a CEO to have a full >understanding of recruitment law small print. Exactly. It applies very widely: I am a storage and virtualisation specialist, I manage a multi-million-dollar virtual infrastructure with multiple SANs, the user community is made up of developers and database specialists. I am not a DBA and I am not a developer (any more). There is no need for me to have these skills in order to provide an infrastructure for them to run on. Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk "To every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken >While I realise that hatred of formal education is firmly entrenched in >England - the 'cult of the amateur' and all that - if you don't recruit >graduates who are you going to recruit these days? I don't believe there is a hatred of formal education, only innappropriate education. Having a degree in one thing, does not qualify you for any management job. Appropriate in-house training can achieve much, though as I said, you definitely need to maintain an external influence. >I'm always reminded of a Finnish firm where a manager actually boasted >about how many of his staff had what kind of paper qualifications, with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >operate the signals. I wouldn't expect a CEO to have a full >understanding of recruitment law small print. One problem has been, the belief among higher management that they can run anything and we end up, as in the banking sector, with not one CEO with a banking qualification. Big is not always beautiful. I also happen to believe in Trades Unions. Now that should *really* get you going ! ;-) >>> At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers >>> can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > operate the signals. I wouldn't expect a CEO to have a full > understanding of recruitment law small print. But the whole point of a degree is to elevate the students ability to think at a given level. Once graduated, the student should then be *trained* by the employer to do a given job. A degree does not indicate the graduates ability to do a job, but indicates the graduates ability to be trained to do a job (or more accurately, function at that level). Typically, in engineering, the graduate training programme was 3 years (when I graduated in 1992). Forgetting this is why so many graduates a seen as useless - they aren't - but they are untrained, just the same as any other employee on their first day. Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb >>>> At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers >>>> can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > But the whole point of a degree is to elevate the students ability to > think at a given level. Once graduated, the student should then be To think, to assess, to evaluate, to question, to co-ordinate, etc. > *trained* by the employer to do a given job. A degree does not indicate > the graduates ability to do a job, but indicates the graduates ability to > be trained to do a job (or more accurately, function at that level). Very true. > Typically, in engineering, the graduate training programme was 3 years > (when I graduated in 1992). Plus one year in relevant work experience IIRC > Forgetting this is why so many graduates a > seen as useless - they aren't - but they are untrained, just the same as > any other employee on their first day. Most training... High School, Apprenticeship, College, University, etc does not teach you ALL you need to know. Instead, it gives you a grounding in the basics, the underpinning knowledge and skills, that you will need to go on and continue your learning to whatever level or degree of specialisation is required. Lifelong Learning is the current buzzword but it is quite an accurate concept. I have never stopped learning since the day I was born. A man cannot know everything and a great fool is the man who says he does. I know of companies which employ university graduates purely because their degree is proof that they can think and continue to learn what is needed within the company.. > Cheers > Richard Krypsis > >At companies I've worked for it has been taken as read that managers > >can't do the job. If they could, they wouldn't need to employ me to do it! > > That was not true when you promoted from within the ranks. Oh, I assure you it most certainly was. I've seen too many good engineers promoted to being crap managers. MBQ >>> HR has become (apart from a standing joke) a self-perpetuating drain >>> on scant resources - like Health & Safety, if there is no problem they [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > own computers. Or saying that managers could do their own filing and > photocopying That's what the on-hand consultant(cy) is for. Manager has a query about, say, maternity leave - ask consultant, get answer, act on it. No offices to maintain, no staff overhead (twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to happen), much lower cost and the person with the problem only deals with a well known face who should know a lot about them as individuals and their job = happier staff. Plus the consultancy is very likely to have a relationship with those on the other side of the fence, and therefore be aware of what *actually* happens, rather than should theoretically happen, in the event of a dispute - time and money saved again. It isn't the same as the IT department argument since IT has physical equipment to deal with rather than people - though the difference seems to be lost on many managers ;-) If only all mangers could somehow run a small business for a year, the knowledge gained would show MBA's etc to be what they are - a piece of paper. The best managers I worked for (3 of them) could get staff to jump into flaming ponds by asking, the rest couldn't get staff to follow them to the pub for a free drink (literally in one case). Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb |
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