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Model Forum / General / Railroads / May 2009Is this group dead or what
Not many posts and lots of spam. What's going on here? > Not many posts and lots of spam. > > What's going on here? My server shows 83 posts since Monday morning, of which about 8 were spam.  SignatureMartin S. > Not many posts and lots of spam. Seems to be OK to me, although it's quieter than it was. We've had about half a dozen spam messages against a fair few "real" messages, so no problems. If you want to see more model railway posts, you're welcome to contribute :-) SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ >> Not many posts and lots of spam. > > Seems to be OK to me, although it's quieter than it was. We've had about > half a dozen spam messages against a fair few "real" messages, so no > problems. If you want to see more model railway posts, you're welcome to > contribute :-) Think I just hit it on a bad day then. thanks guys. > Not many posts and lots of spam. > > What's going on here? It has always been pretty quiet on this newsgroup, in fact it only seems to be OT topics that create much discussion. I think that most modellers use Yahoo Groups or forums like RMWeb these days. Fred X > > Not many posts and lots of spam. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Fred X If you look at the message volume via Google groups you can see the volume peaked around 2003 - 2004 and has dropped by maybe 40% since; personally I agree yahoo groups and web forums have taken over. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.models.rail/about?hl=en >>> Not many posts and lots of spam. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.models.rail/about?hl=en I've noticed a significant drop in the number of postings to web based sites over the same period. My guess is that the novelty of owning a PC and being able to post to the internet has simply worn off for many people. (kim) > airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > over the same period. My guess is that the novelty of owning a PC and being > able to post to the internet has simply worn off for many people. Or people are now actually talking to each other whilst they huddle together under a brolly outside the pub having a smoke ! Chris > airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > (kim) I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone from nothing to 5000 memebers or whatever. I do agree there is often a 'novekty factor' involved with afair few people, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. >> airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > 'novekty factor' involved with afair few people, it will be > interesting to see what happens over the next few years. but its quality vs quantity. On RMWeb some posts an opinion and lots of me too post follow. Then someone disagrees and more me too post follow (some from same people). Then it descends into bickering and a moderator closes the thread. Some threads with criticism of manufacturers or media are closed very quickly. Finally tis very clique driven. Personally prefer the anarchy available here. cheers, Simon >>> airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >> On Fri, 22 May 2009 22:42:39 +0100, Bob [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > cheers, > Simon Me too! Greg.P. ;-) Me too! Greg.P. ;-) ha you are so un-'me too' that if you were in solitary you would happily argue with yourself for hours :-) Cheers, Simon > Me too! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cheers, > Simon Err, now you've got me worried! That sentiment has been expressed before! > (some from same people). Then it descends into bickering and a moderator > closes the thread. Some threads with criticism of manufacturers or media > are closed very quickly. While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about criticising manufacturers. We worry that if some mentions that the loco has the wrong number of wheels then the manufacturer will take his ball home, while military fans moan that a model is disgusting waste of plastic because of some minor error which takes a few seconds with a file to sort out. (actually, anyone know of a English (or maybe German) forum/group for eastern European railway modelling? I'm after a HO(ish) TEM2, and I'm sure someone must do something suitable to convert, apart from the US firm which hand-builds them at higher cost than I have in mind. If not, it is down to copying a Polish paper kit in plastic) SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK > > (some from same people). Then it descends into bickering and a moderator > > closes the thread. Some threads with criticism of manufacturers or media [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > plastic because of some minor error which takes a few seconds with a > file to sort out. I have found most people / manufacturers will accept constrictive criticism if done with tact & diplomacy. The major manufactures know what a knowledgeable ( or fussy :-) ) lot model rail enthusiasts can be (!). Having never been interested in military models I am at a loss why they are so different in their attitude to ready to run (use) models ? In real combat conditions may military vehicles are ‘customised’ by their crews and have ‘attachments’ / ‘embelishements’ never intended by the original manufacture. Being part of a group without a moderator can have it’s drawbacks but at least you can say what you want about who you want. Once of the worst kind of groups can be those owned / moderated by the same person ( says he who has his own moderated group ) I tend to only have to remove ‘members’ who join simply to spread spam. Those groups who have a ‘single’ minded owner / moderator tend to ‘die’ quickly or have a hard core of members who think the same as the owner. Electronic self perpetuating back slapping ! Chris > Once of the worst kind of groups can be those owned / moderated by the > same person ( says he who has his own moderated group ) I tend to only > have to remove ‘members’ who join simply to spread spam. Those groups > who have a ‘single’ minded owner / moderator tend to ‘die’ quickly or > have a hard core of members who think the same as the owner. > Electronic self perpetuating back slapping ! I can't see the point of that latter type of forum, but you're right in that they fizzle out quite quickly. The other type of forum I dislike is where the moderator steps in with threats if a thread hints at going slightly off-topic - P4_talk comes to mind. In real life, discussions do wander off topic. The best is E4um where the current hot mega-thread is about cars and not model railways! One of the worst was the Festiniog Railway Society email forum - that is so cliquey as to be totally impenetrable to anyone except the inner circle. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ > I can't see the point of that latter type of forum, but you're right in > that they fizzle out quite quickly. The other type of forum I dislike is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Railway Society email forum - that is so cliquey as to be totally > impenetrable to anyone except the inner circle. At the risk of being accused of being a "me too" I have to agree. I asked a couple of what seemed like reasonable questions on the Ffestiniog Railway site and was basically told to shut up/mind my own business. Not very comforting!! So I left Paul > While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway > modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about > criticising manufacturers. We worry that if some mentions that the loco > has the wrong number of wheels then the manufacturer will take his ball > home Some of the criticism of the current very high quality RTR offerings has been beyond belief. Hornby or Bachmann will release a superb new model, and someone will complain that the wiper blades are a scale inch too short. What happened to railway modelling? SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ >> While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway >> modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and someone will complain that the wiper blades are a scale inch too > short. What happened to railway modelling? Whereas if it was the style of underpants on an inch-high soldier, there would be multiple websites discussing the problem. SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >> While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway >> modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and someone will complain that the wiper blades are a scale inch too > short. What happened to railway modelling? The more you give people the more they want. In the 1950s we were happy to pay good money for minimally-detailed diecast locos with tinplate coaches and wagons running on 3-rail tinplate track (but not that cheap plastic Tri-Ang stuff). I wonder what modellers will be complaining about in the 2050s? SignatureMartin S. >> While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway modellers >> are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about criticising [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and someone will complain that the wiper blades are a scale inch too > short. What happened to railway modelling? Letter in latest model rail issue.... First he complains that 7 out of 8 recent purchases were duff but of those, 4 were of same model that had a design fault and 2 of the others (again of the same model) had loco to tender connection too long so fouled on tracks. To me that 7 out of 8 is meaningless. However he sent back the two with the overlong cable - of course thats his right, but makes me agree with Paul on the question of what happened .... So heres the competition, whats the least 'error' that has given rise to a return ? May be one youve sent back yourself, received or have nth knowledge of... Cheers, Simon >>> While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway >>> modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > has given rise to a return ? May be one youve sent back yourself, > received or have nth knowledge of... Ah, but I think the person who sends back faulty RTR stuff is doing the right thing. Then the makers might actually do some quality control. This is a million miles from "no modelling skill" or "box-opening modelling". Example, in N, the little Farish 04 shunter is often (usually?; all five I've seen were wrong) assembled with the pickups not touching all the wheels. To get inside is a collection of small screws, 8 of them, different sizes, four of which are a sod to put back in. Now, in all the cases I've ended up fixing them; two were my own locos (which I modified to 2mm FS, so the warranty is out of the window), three belonging to others. Bought over quite a long period with different liveries, so not all from the same manufacturing batch. But, there is no pressure on Bachmann-Farish to fix their quality control from my actions. They can carry on selling duff product which works erratically unless passed to someone with suitable skills to fix it. Pickups fixed and they run superbly. - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ >>>> While I don't read the forum, I get the impression that railway >>>> modellers are a lot more sensitive than other modellers about [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > - Nigel That is a valid point, but is returning the product the only way of letting them know. What about an email to customer care or a comment to the retailer ? What do you think is the cutoff at which the product should be returned - for the average person that is, special cases can be ignored for this question. cheers, Simon >>> Letter in latest model rail issue.... >>> First he complains that 7 out of 8 recent purchases were duff but of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> control. This is a million miles from "no modelling skill" or >> "box-opening modelling". > That is a valid point, but is returning the product the only way of > letting them know. What about an email to customer care or a comment > to the retailer ? Retailers vary from box shifters to serious model shops. The latter might pay attention, but how much attention will the Bachmann/Hornby rep pay to them ? Box shifters shift boxes. I have my doubts about some maker's customer care. > What do you think is the cutoff at which the product should be > returned - for the average person that is, special cases can be > ignored for this question. Difficult for me to say as I buy so little RTR. I think I've bought three locos in the last two years and no rolling stock; two Farish 04's and a Bachmann 20 in OO. All were re-wheeled to finescale standards, couplings replaced. The 04's were DCC'd (see sagas elsewhere about the DCC controlled couplings inside them), and the class 20 is about to have various modifications. I build a few kits, and kits are in some respects worse than RTR. I think there are a few kits on the market where a full refund for being "unbuildable piles of crap" would be supported if the claim went to trading standards. There are also some totally superb kits which are a delight to build. I tend to research what I buy and stick with the stuff from designers with a good reputation. - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ > I build a few kits, and kits are in some respects worse than RTR. I think > there are a few kits on the market where a full refund for being > "unbuildable piles of crap" would be supported if the claim went to trading > standards. There are also some totally superb kits which are a delight to > build. I tend to research what I buy and stick with the stuff from > designers with a good reputation. Try some reviews of Starfix model aeroplanes: "traditionally used as non biodegradable landfill, as place holders on Ebay" is one. I have one on my shelf, bought in a sale at a pound shop in Hull. People peer at it and say "WTF? OK, just maybe it is a little bit like a Spitfire. Well, except for the shape." Maybe I've just not found them, but there don't seem to be many railway kit review websites around. There are lots - maybe too many to keep track of - for 1:72 aeroplanes and 1:35 Panzers, but even things like the Airfix/Dapol and Revell plastic loco kits only appear as lone oddities tagged on the end of other review sites. SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >> (some from same people). Then it descends into bickering and a >> moderator closes the thread. Some threads with criticism of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > firm which hand-builds them at higher cost than I have in mind. If not, > it is down to copying a Polish paper kit in plastic) There does seem to be some modellers who behave as if model manufacturers are charities who are all doing us a favour by allowing us to buy their products and they think that we must not point out that their models have serious errors or else they will switch to making ping pong balls. Fred X > <airsmoot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > cheers, > Simon I find the quality and accuracy of the info on Model Rail Forum far higher than that on RMWeb. It seems to be a bit more "grown up". Having visited once, I will not be going back to "New Railway Modellers". MBQ > I find the quality and accuracy of the info on Model Rail Forum far > higher than that on RMWeb. It seems to be a bit more "grown up". I think that might be a specific forum (or subforum) issue. I've seen a fair few MRF threads where I dispair at the replies. There are vast bits of both which are of no interest to me, and probably amount to the majority traffic on both - 00 RTR items ! > Having visited once, I will not be going back to "New Railway > Modellers". Agreed. - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ > I find the quality and accuracy of the info on Model Rail Forum far > higher than that on RMWeb. It seems to be a bit more "grown up". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > MBQ I find Model Rail Forum is a bit of a mess with people posting in the wrong sub forums, especially the Hornby Magazine section. The posts are mostly about anything but the magazine, especially the Ask The Editor section, were everyone but the editor answers the questions that I am surprised why you would want to ask the magazine editor specifically about in the first place. The moderators do nothing to remind people about posting in the right forum section. RMWeb is very tidy in this respect. Dobbin > I find the quality and accuracy of the info on Model Rail Forum far > higher than that on RMWeb. It seems to be a bit more "grown up". > > Having visited once, I will not be going back to "New Railway > Modellers". Sentiments with which I totally agree, RMWeb and NRM are a complete waste of space. Alistair >> I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum >> has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone from [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > cheers, > Simon I agree. I got thrown out of RMWeb for correcting the views of one of the moderator's mates. The fact that I am an acknowledged expert in the area concerned cut no ice. I had to retract my staememt (which was the truth) and apologise or out I went. RMWeb is not for serious enthusiasts. Alistair >>> I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum >>> has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone from [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Alistair Theres an art to criticizing a model in a review that was wonderfully demonstrated by MW in the june issue of hornby magazine ... "....what we have is a well-made model (albeit with some caveats) of an unusual prototype ..... it has got its bad points, but there are lots of good points too and the bad do not outway the good, as this is a good model, but one which isn't quite perfect in every respect." Following which the fence collapsed in confusion. Cheers, Simon > Theres an art to criticizing a model in a review that was wonderfully > demonstrated by MW in the june issue of hornby magazine ... > "....what we have is a well-made model (albeit with some caveats) of > an unusual prototype ..... it has got its bad points, but there are > lots of good points too and the bad do not outway the good, as this > is a good model, but one which isn't quite perfect in every respect." How about, "The colours on the London-Midland Class 170 are absolutely correct, but not necessarily in the right places"? {With apologies to Eric Morcambe) Kim >> Theres an art to criticizing a model in a review that was wonderfully >> demonstrated by MW in the june issue of hornby magazine ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > correct, but not necessarily in the right places"? {With apologies to > Eric Morcambe) Can you see the join? SignatureMartin S. >> Theres an art to criticizing a model in a review that was wonderfully >> demonstrated by MW in the june issue of hornby magazine ... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kim I know it was he that said it, but wasnt it Les Dawson that could play the piano slightly out of synch ? Cheers, Simon >>> I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum >>> has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > was the truth) and apologise or out I went. RMWeb is not for serious > enthusiasts. Sorry to hear that Alistair. I saw something similar recently and it put me off the whole idea of registering with RMWeb. The arrogance of the moderator concerned was unbelievable. (kim) >>> I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum >>> has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone from [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Alistair Yes, the moderators behaviour is over the top with respect to some of the posts. In fact only last week an American member started a thread about his experiences of his recent visit to Britain which was critical of some aspects of the country, but was totally fair and nothing worse than what we natives would say. But for some reason one of the moderators thought the author was being deliberately provovative and locked the thread! Fred X <snip> >> I think it depends very much on the forum; for example the BRM forum >> has gone from fairly active to tumbleweed, whereas RMweb has gone from [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > prefer the anarchy available here. cheers, > Simon I have to agree there. I stopped using RMWeb when it became apparent that the new/different ideas would be shouted down until silence was achieved - presumably scoring some sort of "victory". It also has fair number of resident "experts" who would rather perpetuate model railway/real railway myths than accept being told different. Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb >> <airsmoothed@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:60325ab9-c63b-44fe- [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > the new/different ideas would be shouted down until silence was achieved > - presumably scoring some sort of "victory". Agreed. Some of the regular posters seem to have a lot of leeway and are startlingly rude to other posters. Unfortunately over the time I've been reading it, the place has gained a terribly prissy, sanctimonious tone, with warnings and threats from the moderators about behaviour posted all over the place. It seems to have adopted Chris Leigh's line that opinion has to be "controlled". FFS. It's a shame, because there's some really good stuff on there, especially the DCC forum and posters' layout/workbench blogs. >>> but its quality vs quantity. On RMWeb some posts an opinion and > Agreed. Some of the regular posters seem to have a lot of leeway and > are startlingly rude to other posters. Unfortunately over the time [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shame, because there's some really good stuff on there, especially > the DCC forum and posters' layout/workbench blogs. Ah, that might be why I haven't bumped into the nasty bits of RMWeb; I tend to hang out in only the DCC forum and a couple of layout/workbench areas. Those tend to be fine. Even so, I have noticed, even in the DCC bit, the occaisional trigger-happy locking of a thread, and the growth of the "rules" postings at the top of the pages is annoying (I complained about it once, pointing out that having a vast number would ensure all were unread, and they were trimmed back a bit, but they are growing again like the weeds in my garden). I'm sorry that some decent modellers have left due to the actions of the RMWeb management/moderators. - Nigel SignatureNigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ >> airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >'novekty factor' involved with afair few people, it will be >interesting to see what happens over the next few years. I get more out of the specialist email lists, like the 7mm and GWR lists on yahoo. But it's still worth being here because topics that interest me do come up. > whereas RMweb has gone from > nothing to 5000 memebers or whatever. How many of those 5000 members are active though? I'm a member, but I just can't get on with web forums so don't use it. I'm much happier with email or usenet forums such as E4um and Templot where I get to see any new posts without having to hunt them down. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ > airsmoot...@hotmail.com wrote: > > whereas RMweb has gone from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ I doubt if more than 10% of those members post regularly,but that's still a lot of people; to the point it gets very difficult to sort out the wheat from the chaff: and I do agree that some threads get shut down too quickly for my liking these days, so it's useful to have an unmoderated group to hang around on as well. :-) . Personally I find MRF very 'dry' and humourless, so I don't hang around there much. I use the 'vew new posts' 'view your posts' and thread subscriptions on RMweb to try and keep track ( ha ha) amongst the background noise. >> whereas RMweb has gone from >> nothing to 5000 memebers or whatever. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with email or usenet forums such as E4um and Templot where I get to see > any new posts without having to hunt them down. That's why RMWeb has a new post button. And I don't know how many of the 5,000 are active, but it's enough to make the forum worth visting everyday. Fred X > That's why RMWeb has a new post button. And I don't know how many > of the 5,000 are active, but it's enough to make the forum worth > visting everyday. I tried that and got 40 pages of new posts. How do you mark everything as read so that I can start from somewhere realistic? SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ >> That's why RMWeb has a new post button. And I don't know how many >> of the 5,000 are active, but it's enough to make the forum worth >> visting everyday. > > I tried that and got 40 pages of new posts. How do you mark > everything as read so that I can start from somewhere realistic? Click on Mark Forums Read > Click on Mark Forums Read OK - I click on "View new posts" and get 40 pages of new posts with "more than 1000 matches". Where is this "Mark forums read" button or link? I am logged in. SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ Ah - found it. It isn't in the "New posts" bit which is where I would expect it to be. Email and usenet forums are so much easier, or am I just getting old? SignaturePaul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/ > Ah - found it. It isn't in the "New posts" bit which is where I would > expect it to be. > > Email and usenet forums are so much easier, or am I just getting old? Perhaps part of the reason why they are easier is that there are fewer posts compared to the web forums. Fred X Paul, >> That's why RMWeb has a new post button. And I don't know how many >> of the 5,000 are active, but it's enough to make the forum worth >> visting everyday. > >I tried that and got 40 pages of new posts. How do you mark everything >as read so that I can start from somewhere realistic? If you log in and log out every time you visit then the "New Posts" will only give the messages which have appeared since your last visit. With the previous version of the software, you didn't need to log out to get the "New Posts" to give only the most recent posts.. I've tried messing about with all the cookie settings on the present version but can't find a setting which would emulate the previous version of the software. This was reported when the new version of software was installed but there has been no apparent move to change things. Jim. |
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