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Model Forum / General / Railroads / June 2009How good is Chatham exhibition
I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. http://www.chatham-mrc.com/show/exhibitors.php?year=2009 Is it frendly or is it a Warley type show. Something else thats there is the boat yard / dock yard, is that like a normal museum ? would it be possible to do both in a day ? Simon G > I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from > home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > normal museum ? would it be possible to do both in a day ? > Simon G I've always found it well worth a visit. There's lots to see in the dockyard. Also down the road towards Chatham is Fort Amherst - part of the Napoleonic defences with lots to see underground as well as above ground, which is open on the Sunday. I always look forward to this day out. Alan  Signaturealan.dawes@argonet.co.uk alan.dawes@riscos.org Using an Acorn RiscPC > I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from > home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. > http://www.chatham-mrc.com/show/exhibitors.php?year=2009 > Is it frendly or is it a Warley type show. > Something else thats there is the boat yard / dock yard, is that like a > normal museum ? would it be possible to do both in a day ? It's usually big-ish, and pretty good. The exhibition is (usually) in one of the old dockyard buildings. I think in the past they've done a discount on museum admission if you have been to the show. There is also a fort nearby which is open for visitors, if that's your sort of thing, plus Rochester castle and cathedral aren't far away. Chatham itself is a bit of a hole, and quite a trek from the show - if you are going by train it is worth getting the bus from the station, either a service bus to the stop a few minutes away (signs might be a little naughty and claim there are no buses to the museum, which is strictly true but not usefully true, as you can walk across the car park), or use the (paid for) vintage bus shuttle to the door. SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >> I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from >> home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > strictly true but not usefully true, as you can walk across the car > park), or use the (paid for) vintage bus shuttle to the door. if the website bothered to say how often it runs or what it costs. E. >>> I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from >>> home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >if the website bothered to say how often it runs or what it costs. It does. The OP linked directly to the list of exhibits; you need to go back up the tree to the main exhibition page to get that information: http://www.chatham-mrc.com/show/home.php Having said that, it's not particularly well-presented (a jpeg of the printed poster). The information is also on these listing sites: http://www.modelr.co.uk/events/chatham_and_district_mrc_exhibition_20090613 http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/2121-Chatham_and_District_Model_Railway_Clu b_Chatham_Show Mark SignatureBlog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk >>>> I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from >>>> home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > http://www.modelr.co.uk/events/chatham_and_district_mrc_exhibition_20090613 > http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/2121-Chatham_and_District_Model_Railway_Clu b_Chatham_Show The poster tells me what the show costs, but nothing about the special bus service other than that it exists, and that's what I was talking about. The listing sites don't seem to mention the bus at all. E. >>>> I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from >>>> home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > go back up the tree to the main exhibition page to get that > information: I can't see any bus gen, though? > http://www.chatham-mrc.com/show/home.php > > Having said that, it's not particularly well-presented (a jpeg of the > printed poster). The information is also on these listing sites: > > http://www.modelr.co.uk/events/chatham_and_district_mrc_exhibition_20090613 Unfortunately the computer can't tell that there is a slight problem with getting to Strood station from the dockyard (unless you are Jesus!). Slightly different, but you wouldn't believe the battle we had to persuade the relevant committee members to put a postcode on the posters and flyers for /our/ show. "But everyone knows where St Fred's school is!". I think the idea that people might use one of Mr Babbage's newfangled contraptions to plan their movements was a little bit alien to some of them. SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK > Slightly different, but you wouldn't believe the battle we had to persuade > the relevant committee members to put a postcode on the posters and flyers > for /our/ show. "But everyone knows where St Fred's school is!". I think > the idea that people might use one of Mr Babbage's newfangled contraptions > to plan their movements was a little bit alien to some of them. Of course no one would need to check the code - after all it would be supplied by the venue owners. Barrow on Soar made that mistake and we ended up in an estate a couple of miles from the exhibition. Cheers, Simon > I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from > home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. Some good stuff. Very nice Lynton & Barnstable layout, a Thames-side scrap yard layout I rather like, a West Country china clay(?) layout which is a good example of the species, a US harbo(u)r layout which was interestingly different (i.e. not a logging rabbit warren or a tiny yard with an old coach converted into a cafe plonked by the track). Best of all was Rowland's Castle, an absolutely fantastic model set in 1944 which you can stare at for ages and still seen new things - how many models have coaches full of the passengers, even stood in the corridors and looking out windows? All the colours were consistent (I'm sure there is technical term), so the trains and landscape blend rather than clash. It gave the impression of being inspired by real history, rather than repeats of TV sitcoms, and two old codgers stood next to me said it was the only wartime layout they'd seen that "got it right". SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >> I have been thinking about going to Chathem, but its a longish way from >> home, Is the show good ? It looks like its a big one. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > rather than repeats of TV sitcoms, and two old codgers stood next to me > said it was the only wartime layout they'd seen that "got it right". Well, I went, and it was sort of worth it: * Some nice layouts, and a couple of very nice ones. * Loads of traders (if I had any money). * A tiring sort of venue - I think it's walking on the concrete. * The "substantial catering area" wasn't really - the burger van needed more to help it out than a bar with a few sandwiches, and there weren't enough seats - if you're on your own the chance of having no seat is far too high (not that this show is alone in that), and from my point of view it meant no lunch. * Seating at "various points around the hall" amounted to, as far as I could see, 12 chairs in one place, way over-subscribed. * Even at the station bus stop and, worse, at the show itself, a lack of information about the bus service. The bus arrived at the station stop at the same time as I did, so that was OK, but getting the bus back meant sitting on a wobbly concrete block (everyone else was standing around) with no clear idea of when the bus would appear. Pity about it adding £2.50 to the price of the day, too. And if you think I'm just a grouch, read the RMWEB thread and you'll see I'm not entirely alone - no one there mentioned the bus, but then I didn't mention the toilets! E. > And if you think I'm just a grouch, read the RMWEB thread and you'll see > I'm not entirely alone - no one there mentioned the bus, but then I > didn't mention the toilets! > > E. This was the first show I had been to so have nothing to compare it to I spent about 3 hours there wandering about marveling at some of the fantastic layouts and getting totally disheartened with the one I am building at the moment, ( my modeling skills are never going to amount to much). I spent far to much as well but you had to be really careful with some of the prices being charged, I was after a Graham Farish Class 37 and these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was selling an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 normally. Like I said only spent about 3 hours there so didn't need any food or drink or the toilets. Had a good time though and would go again. > these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was selling an > electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 normally. Name and shame please! That kind of behaviour deserves it. I would perhaps tolerate a small premium if it's a small trader who struggles to cover the transport costs and stall hire, e.g. an amount equivalent to the P&P I would otherwise have to pay, but that kind of mark up is taking the piss. Larger traders I would expect to charge the same price, or even lower at shows. MBQ >> these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was selling >> an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > MBQ I suspect naming & shaming would just ensure they, and others, would simply not attend again. Why do so many think that every business gets issued with a charity registration number to go a long with their business number! Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb > >> these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was selling > >> an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > issued with a charity registration number to go a long with their > business number! So you're quite happy with a 40% price hike for the priviledge of buying at an exhibition? This will just ensure people stop buying at exhibitions and the traders will not attend anyway. Why do such traders lack even basic business sense? Perhaps they would do better as charities! MBQ >> >> these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was >> >> selling an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > MBQ I know how much it costs to attend a show, we used to do it a lot! Perhaps you'd care to provide us with a breakdown of the costs and I'll then provide a real one! Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb > >> >> these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was > >> >> selling an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Perhaps you'd care to provide us with a breakdown of the costs and I'll > then provide a real one! Last time I enquired (N gauge show at leamington last year) the smallest stand was, IIRC, £125-ish. With multi-day shows there is obviously accomodation as well as transport, but that's not really the point. Larger traders such as Squires charge the same price at shows as shown in their cataloge (as far as I am aware). I've already stated that a small premium would be acceptable (to me) for smaller traders. The issue is the trader who seems to think that a 40% markup on a £25 product is acceptable and justifiable. I will certainly not be charitable to that sort of trader. MBQ >> >> >> these were priced between £75 and £99. and another dealer was >> >> >> selling an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > stand was, IIRC, £125-ish. With multi-day shows there is obviously > accomodation as well as transport, but that's not really the point. There speaks a non businessman! Costs, and how to recover them, are *everything* to a business. > Larger traders such as Squires charge the same price at shows as shown > in their cataloge (as far as I am aware). But the costs are still built in to their prices. > I've already stated that a small premium would be acceptable (to me) for > smaller traders. > > The issue is the trader who seems to think that a 40% markup on a £25 > product is acceptable and justifiable. I will certainly not be > charitable to that sort of trader. It's fully justifiable and acceptable *if* the trader can get away with it - every price in the world is based on what the seller thinks/knows what they can get away with - if the customer gets to set the price (as is happening during the recession) then failure is only a question of when, not if. > MBQ Cheers Richard SignatureI have become...............comfortably numb > There speaks a non businessman! Wrong. >Costs, and how to recover them, are > *everything* to a business. I don't disupte that. > > Larger traders such as Squires charge the same price at shows as shown > > in their cataloge (as far as I am aware). > > But the costs are still built in to their prices. Exactly. They have fully costed their business activities and accounted for the different costs of shop versus catalogue versus trade stand sales allowing them to charge regardless of the channel. If the only way a trader can afford to attend shows is by hiking prices by 40%, then they need to examine their business model or not attend shows. > > I've already stated that a small premium would be acceptable (to me) for > > smaller traders. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > is happening during the recession) then failure is only a question of > when, not if. Well, I certainly would not let a trader get away with a 40% mark up if I was aware of it. I'm surprised that you seem happy for fellow modellers to be fleeced (that's the only description for it) by such a trader. I'm still hoping this particular trader will be named so I can avoid their stand at shows. I'll leave it at that. MBQ Has anyone bothered to check thatthe prices quoted in the original post can be proved? >> And if you think I'm just a grouch, read the RMWEB thread and you'll see >> I'm not entirely alone - no one there mentioned the bus, but then I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Had a good time though and would go again. > Has anyone bothered to check thatthe prices quoted in the original > post can be proved? Sorry I forgot in the heat of the moment to get a sworn affidavit or even photographic proof, I was only mentioning some of the price differences I had seen with my own eyes, I am not asking you to take is as gospel after all you don't know me. Just sharing what I had seen that's all. Shan't bother again though By >> Has anyone bothered to check thatthe prices quoted in the original >> post can be proved? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > By Dont worry about that, I've seen similar price hikes myself. Whilst traders are allowed to do it, theyre basically after the unwary and not really worried about repeat custom. My feeling is that if they do that then cant trust them with other products so I move on. The better traders on the other hand will sometimes round down the price by a pound or 2. Cheers, Simon > "Paul" <nobody@nowere.com> wrote... >> <intercityman2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > The better traders on the other hand will sometimes round down the > price by a pound or 2. Here in Canada, where sales tax is normally added on to advertised prices, prices at model shows are usually all-inclusive. Even registered businesses, which are obliged to collect taxes, will often absorb the tax (currently 5% federal + 8% provincial in Ontario) in the quoted price. SignatureMartin S. I am referring to your statement:' and another dealer was selling an electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 normally.' As there was only one stand there selling these, it is not difficult to work out who you are talking about. You have also been asked by another poster to 'name and shame'. I am not disputing what you say, I merely wish to know whether you can prove this statement to be true, as you could ruin the reputation of someone if it is not, or even find yourself in court. >> Has anyone bothered to check thatthe prices quoted in the original >> post can be proved? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >By >I am referring to your statement:' and another dealer was selling an > electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > prove this statement to be true, as you could ruin the reputation of > someone if it is not, or even find yourself in court. You don't end up in court for telling the truth. If you know who I was referring to as you claim then between the 2 of you you know full well he was asking £35 for something that he normally sells for £25. I know he has not broken any laws as he is entitled to sell his goods for what ever he chooses, its all down to business morals. a bit like MP's not braking the law on some of the expenses claims but most of them are morally questionable. I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the stall and saw some of what was on sale. What I am asking, is how do you know they are normally on sale for £25.00 normally? >>I am referring to your statement:' and another dealer was selling an >> electrostatic flock device for £35 when he sells them for £25 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >MP's not braking the law on some of the expenses claims but most of them are >morally questionable. > I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however > knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>are >>morally questionable. If I understand correctly what was posted on another group recently the onus is on the trader to prove that the assertation is false, should he wish to take it to court. Incidently Mr intercityman2000 could you tell us your interest in this situation - trader, customer ..... cheers, Simon >> I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however >> knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> >>> You don't end up in court for telling the truth. Depends. An example I was once given was something about a newspaper saying "Mr Bloggs was seen coming out of the drug abuse rehabilitation centre every day last week". It was true, but they got sued because they "forgot" to mention that he is the cleaner there... >>> If you know who I was referring to as you claim then between the 2 of >>> you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > onus is on the trader to prove that the assertation is false, should he > wish to take it to court. Are you sure? IANAL but wouldn't it be about defamation, in which case the poster would have to show justification for making the claim (eg, that it was true would be one option). If someone says a trader is doing dodgy things, the accuser has to prove it, the trader doesn't have to prove his innocence. This is why people say someone accused of libel has to prove his innocence, which is backwards to normal law - though I'm still not convinced that giving people the freedom to say anything and leaving it up to their victims to try to disprove it is a good idea - we don't allow the police to do that! SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK >>> I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however >>> knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > to say anything and leaving it up to their victims to try to disprove it > is a good idea - we don't allow the police to do that! Nope, am not sure at all. Law is very much a mystery to me. cheers, Simon > I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however > knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the > stall and saw some of what was on sale. What I am asking, is how do > you know they are normally on sale for £25.00 normally? That part is quite easy provided the seller at the show was telling the truth, when he said he makes them and is the sole supplier. He was as you know selling them at the show for £35, they are also available on eBay from a seller the claims to make them and also be the sole supplier (This is were I assume its the same trader) as they are both making the same statement. when sold through "His" eBay shop they sell for £25. Maybe someone is not being truthful about being the sole make and seller, but if that's the case then which one would you pick, I know which one I would go with Then why didn't you say that when first asked? It would have saved all this to-ing and fro-ing. For the record, I am a trader. Unfortunately with the internet, not all traders are able to read, or even know about these groups and are unaware that people are discussing their business on line. They are therefore unable to correct or defend themselves against what could be a malicious lie made by a disgruntled customer. All you needed to do was make your last comment at the start! >> I'm guessing who it could be as I went to the show. I do not, however >> knowe what price he sells his products for. i only glanced at the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >but if that's the case then which one would you pick, I know which one I >would go with > Then why didn't you say that when first asked? It would have saved all > this to-ing and fro-ing. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > All you needed to do was make your last comment at the start! "Malicious Lie" who is make statements that could end up with them in court now LOL. Nothing wrong with what I posted as it was based solely on what the trader told me to my face "I make these myself and you cannot get them from anywhere else" If that is true how can a eBay seller be selling for less. Either the eBay seller is buying them at £35 and selling them for £25 or the Guy at the show is the maker and selling them on eBay for £25 and then selling them at the show for £35. Its not rocket science, I really don't understand why you just don't get it. If you read what I said 'They are >> therefore unable to correct or defend themselves against what could be >> a malicious lie made by a disgruntled customer.' the important bit is 'what could', you should be able to understand the point I am making. I am not defending his selling practices at all, that is up to him. What I asked originally was 'has anyone bothered to check for proof?' There have been several instances recently of disgruntled customers posting items on the internet about shops that have subsequently turned out to be untrue. It is very easy to sit and type out what COULD be a damaging statement about someone or their business from an anonymous e-mail. All I asked was for evidence, which you have now supplied. Ireally don' understand why YOU don't get it. >> Then why didn't you say that when first asked? It would have saved all >> this to-ing and fro-ing. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Its not rocket science, I really don't understand why you just don't get it. > Then why didn't you say that when first asked? It would have saved all > this to-ing and fro-ing. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > therefore unable to correct or defend themselves against what could be > a malicious lie made by a disgruntled customer. If any modern business [in the developed world] is genuinely unaware of the uses of teh interwebz they should be pretty concerned about their future, even if they are in a seriously niche market (perhaps /especially/ if they are seriously niche). How do they think we knew the show was happening in the first place...?! SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK Unfortunately, I don' have the time to sit and trawl through all the newsgroups or RM Web postings, I wish I did. This was brought to my attention by a customer who asked if it was me. See how we can all get tarred with the same brush! I shall now go and bang my head against a brick wall - it's more fun. >> Then why didn't you say that when first asked? It would have saved all >> this to-ing and fro-ing. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >How do they think we knew the show was happening in the first place...?! > Unfortunately, I don' have the time to sit and trawl through all the > newsgroups or RM Web postings, I wish I did. Which is why you have things like Google alerts set up to let you know when your business is mentioned...? SignatureArthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
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