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Model Forum / General / Railroads / June 200916mmng Gas-powered live steam - safety thereof?
It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. ISTR that my central heating boiler has an over-temperature interlock for the gas supply. Cannot we adapt this interlock onto our models? Even if it is not completely fool proof, perhaps a thermocouple tied to the radio control system via some electronics, surely this would mitigate against those rare cases when during to an oversight on our part, the water runs out? >It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that >the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >would mitigate against those rare cases when during to an oversight >on our part, the water runs out? Do you have a particular model in mind? One of my closest friends works for one of the manufacturers of these engines and they're designed to run out of gas first. "water runs out? > Do you have a particular model in mind? One of my closest friends > works for one of the manufacturers of these engines and they're > designed to run out of gas first. Surely if the water runs out that gas will just heat the empty boiler, any excess pressure will be vented by the safety valve. The only danger is one of the model getting hot with perhaps consequent damage to it. Jeff > "water runs out? > Surely if the water runs out that gas will just heat the empty boiler, any > excess pressure will be vented by the safety valve. If it ever got that far, AIUI the safety valves are not capable of dealing with the pressures associated with extremely-super heated steam, and this was the reason for the danger of boiler explosions in the 12" to 1' scale. > The only danger is one of the model getting hot with perhaps consequent > damage to it. A sufficient danger to want to guard against. I do not (yet) know enough about the attributes of an over heat to knwo whether the inherent capillary action of silver solder will hold it in place, or whether it would run out. >> "water runs out? >> Surely if the water runs out that gas will just heat the empty boiler, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with the pressures associated with extremely-super heated steam, and this > was the reason for the danger of boiler explosions in the 12" to 1' scale. 12" to 1' scale. Isn't that full size?  SignatureKeith W Sunbury on Thames (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living) >>> "water runs out? >>> Surely if the water runs out that gas will just heat the empty boiler, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> scale. > 12" to 1' scale. Isn't that full size? Such an obvious thing did not really merit a comment. >>It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that >>the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > works for one of the manufacturers of these engines and they're > designed to run out of gas first. I have in mind the D-I-Y design in Brian Wilson's book, "Steam trains in your garden" about which I am contemplating making a batch of 5. > >>It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that > >>the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I have in mind the D-I-Y design in Brian Wilson's book, "Steam trains in > your garden" about which I am contemplating making a batch of 5. So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this interlock onto *my* models?". If you are asking for help in doing so then just ask directly instead of beating about the bush. Something like the thermal cutouts used on electric showers would be a good starting point. MBQ > So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this > interlock onto *my* models?". Your comment brings to mind the old adage about railway enthusiasts being very small-minded asocial individuals. > > So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this > > interlock onto *my* models?". > > Your comment brings to mind the old adage about railway enthusiasts > being very small-minded asocial individuals. Good job I'm not a railway enthusiast then, are you? Shame that's all you could manage, rather than commenting on the rest of my post, which may have been useful to you. I'm still not entirely convinced your not trolling given your inability or deliberate choice not to accept advice given in a previous thread. MBQ On Jun 25, 12:46 pm, "Alun" <no.spam.thank....@invalid.invalid> wrote: > "Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in > messagenews:4534984c-664f-4a63-8bc4-cd9f49ffdf38@n30g2000vba.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > inability or deliberate choice not to accept advice given in a > previous thread. Your further comment continues to bring to mind the old adage about railway enthusiasts being very small-minded asocial individuals. On Jun 25, 12:46 pm, "Alun" <no.spam.thank....@invalid.invalid> wrote: > "Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in > messagenews:4534984c-664f-4a63-8bc4-cd9f49ffdf38@n30g2000vba.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > inability or deliberate choice not to accept advice given in a > previous thread. Some suffer fools gladly. I do not suffer you at all. >> So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this >> interlock onto *my* models?". > >Your comment brings to mind the old adage about railway enthusiasts >being very small-minded asocial individuals. He was right and your snide remark was uncalled for. You did this before a couple of months ago when you started a thread on clear plastic for windows, calling somebody who had attempted to help you a "silly boy". This time you asked a question that implied generic gas fired live steam was dangerous because the water ran out before the gas. Of the off chance it was genuine... All you need to do is match the size of the gas tank so it runs out first. Which is what the commercial manufacturers do, is remarkably obvious and won't involve you in any extra expense. >>> So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this >>> interlock onto *my* models?". >>Your comment brings to mind the old adage about railway enthusiasts >>being very small-minded asocial individuals. > He was right and your snide remark was uncalled for. No, he wasn't. He responded as does someone whose pseudonym suggested that he is - or should be - dressed in an orange romper suit. My chastisement of him was called for and treated him with the emotional age that he seemed to want to portray. He was playing the child to my adult ("Games people play"?) and I respected his wish and responded acordingly. Better for this NG and the temperature of social health to keep discussion to the technical issues raised and not to let the temptation to introduce unnecessary personal remarks be indulged. > You did this before a couple of months ago when you started a thread > on clear plastic for windows, calling somebody who had attempted to > help you a "silly boy". If I called someone a silly boy, then it would have been in direct response to undesirable behaviour as a silly boy, as proscribed above. > This time you asked a question that implied generic gas fired live > steam was dangerous because the water ran out before the gas. No, I did not. Read it again. > Of the off chance it was genuine... Do you mean, "half chance"? > All you need to do is match the size of the gas tank so it runs out > first. > Which is what the commercial manufacturers do, is remarkably obvious > and won't involve you in any extra expense. Now you are responding as does a silly boy. Why not merely discuss the technical issues as they are raised. Why do you, and a number of others, feel the need to respond in such an immature fashion? > No, he wasn't. He responded as does someone whose pseudonym suggested > that he is - or should be - dressed in an orange romper suit. Too subtle for you then! Or you're just not old enough to understand. MBQ Alun, you are trying my patience (along with that of others in this group) too much. Please desist from making any more ad-hominem attacks, which serve no purpose except to get up people's noses. The correct reply to Man at B&Q's advice is either "Thanks" or a constructive statement indicating why it is of no use to you. Anything else annoys people, and makes them less likely to want to help you in the future. Any more replies like this and I shall add your details to my blocked senders list. I could be wrong, but I'd have thought your query might get a better response if it were posted in a model engineering group. Have a nice day. >>>> So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt >>>> this [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > and a number of others, feel the need to respond in such an immature > fashion? >I could be wrong, but I'd have thought your query might get a better >response if it were posted in a model engineering group. If he is who I think he is, he was kill filed complrehensively on uk.rec.models.engineering a while ago for similar trolling. He has popped up here and there since then under different names, but his style is instantly recognisable. Jim. >>I could be wrong, but I'd have thought your query might get a better >>response if it were posted in a model engineering group. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jim Agreed - I also think it's good old Gareth from uk.rec.models.engineering so just killfile *Alun* and don't feed the Troll. David >>>> So it's up to you, and the question should be "Cannot *I* adapt this >>>> interlock onto *my* models?". [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >If I called someone a silly boy, then it would have been in direct >response to undesirable behaviour as a silly boy, as proscribed above. When he was trying to help you? The only undesirable behaviour was your rudeness to somebody who had taken the time and trouble to help you. Even you must understand that the "expensive model railway" wood sections are made by somebody who has bought a large piece of the right wood and the correct machine tooling to produce it. In the small volumes we need, it is simply not worth doing it ourselves. >> This time you asked a question that implied generic gas fired live >> steam was dangerous because the water ran out before the gas. > >No, I did not. Read it again. You didn't mention which engine until the second time around. When you described a do-it-yourself project saying you wanted to build a batch of five. Most people without knowledge or experience (suggested by your question) build one, from which they learn. >> Of the off chance it was genuine... > >Do you mean, "half chance"? If I'd meant that I would have said it. >> All you need to do is match the size of the gas tank so it runs out >> first. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Now you are responding as does a silly boy. In other words you aren't interested in the answer. >Why not merely discuss the technical issues as they are raised. Why do you, >and a number of others, feel the need to respond in such an immature >fashion? Why the personal lies? I should have killfiled you a couple of months ago. > >>It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that > >>the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I have in mind the D-I-Y design in Brian Wilson's book, "Steam trains in > your garden" about which I am contemplating making a batch of 5. Something like the thermal cutouts used on electric showers would be a good starting point. They're not expensive and can be thermally bonded to the boiler. i don't know what kind of temperature range they operate over. Alternatively an entirely electronic solution can be envisaged using a range of components that can be pressed into service as temperature sensors, a thermistor probably being the simplest starting point. You then have the problem of how to tie the overtemperature alarm into the radio control system to cause the gas to be cut off. If you have a servo controlled whistle then you could also arrange for an audible warning to help bleed off the steam if the safety valve is insufficient. MBQ > It seems that there is a problem with this type of locomotive that > the water can run dry before the gas supply runs out. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > would mitigate against those rare cases when during to an oversight > on our part, the water runs out? If your gas tank can be opened/disassembled, try sticking a brick or something solid in it to reduce the gas capacity. Keep reducing capacity until the gas runs out before the water. Alternatively, check that you are filling the boiler to the proper level. No point in making things more complicated than they need to be, that's just adding more things to go wrong. Greg.P. > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:51:59 +1200, Alun > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Greg.P. Given human nature, personally I wouldn't like to rely on the gas running out before the water, if the result is a boiler explosion (however small the boiler). People get distracted, and forget things, and forgetting that the boiler had not been topped up could be nasty. John >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:51:59 +1200, Alun >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > John Now you're talking about the sort of person who would disable a safety cutout when the gas won't light! Unfortunately there's no law against people being terminally stupid so eventually the powers that be will have us all in individual rooms lined with fireproof foam rubber. (assuming foam rubber doesn't give off noxious fumes) Regards, Greg.P. Do not use iron in bath while plugged in! These peanuts contain traces of peanuts. |
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