1:76 LNER A4 models
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MartinS - 10 Oct 2009 21:03 GMT I'm looking for a replacement for my ageing Hornby tender-drive LNER Sir Nigel Gresley. Can anyone give me an opinion on the Bachmann 31-952 "Mallard", which is the heritage NRM edition with valances, double chimney, non-corridor tender and speed record plaque. I see from the net that it has a split-chassis loco drive. Since I am not contemplating a conversion to DCC, does this make any difference to its running qualities?
Bachmann's 2009 RPP is £96.85; Hattons is selling it for £68, with other sellers in a range from £73 to £100.
In Hornby, Hattons has R2339 Mallard, DCC ready, for £102 and R2688 Sir Nigel (anniversary edition) for £109. R2779 Falcon at £43 is the Railroad version, I believe with tender drive, similar to what I already have.
Basically, I'm asking is the Bachmann at £68 a good buy, or is the Hornby at 50% more a better buy in terms of quality and performance? Any other RTR suggestions?
 Signature Martin S.
Paul - 10 Oct 2009 22:03 GMT > I'm looking for a replacement for my ageing Hornby tender-drive LNER Sir > Nigel Gresley. Can anyone give me an opinion on the Bachmann 31-952 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > at 50% more a better buy in terms of quality and performance? Any other > RTR suggestions? The Bachmann is quite old now which is why it still has the split chassis
The Hornby Railroad is Loco drive and represents great value as it is actually quite high detail, I compared my Railroad A4 to a fine detail one from only a couple of years ago and it was better.
I wouldn't bother with the Special Edition, unless you are a collector, the R2339 is worth a look.
Paul
MartinS - 11 Oct 2009 00:16 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> I'm looking for a replacement for my ageing Hornby tender-drive LNER [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > The Bachmann is quite old now which is why it still has the split > chassis And maybe why it is being discounted by 30%.
> The Hornby Railroad is Loco drive and represents great value as it is > actually quite high detail, I compared my Railroad A4 to a fine detail > one from only a couple of years ago and it was better. > > I wouldn't bother with the Special Edition, unless you are a > collector, the R2339 is worth a look. Thanks, Paul. It might be worth taking another look at "Falcon" at less than half the price, as most of my other rolling stock is not super- detailed, apart from a Bachmann 9F and a Hornby Black 5.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 11 Oct 2009 21:15 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> I'm looking for a replacement for my ageing Hornby tender-drive LNER [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > than half the price, as most of my other rolling stock is not super- > detailed, apart from a Bachmann 9F and a Hornby Black 5. This railroad range is well good ! Got the 9F last week, basic perhaps but fine for me on the layout as tis outside my era. Will add some weathering and possibly the odd pipe or rail. Chassis is smooth as anything straight out of the box.
Cheers, Simon
John Turner - 14 Oct 2009 14:09 GMT > Thanks, Paul. It might be worth taking another look at "Falcon" at less > than half the price, as most of my other rolling stock is not super- > detailed, apart from a Bachmann 9F and a Hornby Black 5. The Railroad range A4 is a loco drive version utilising the old (super-detailed) tender drive model tooling, which doesn't quite capture the shape of the A4 in the same was as the more recent standard range model.
In my opinion, the latter is one of the best steam loco models in the Hornby range and is streets ahead of both the Bachmann A4 and the Railroad range effort.
John.
MartinS - 14 Oct 2009 21:36 GMT >> Thanks, Paul. It might be worth taking another look at "Falcon" at >> less than half the price, as most of my other rolling stock is not [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Hornby range and is streets ahead of both the Bachmann A4 and the > Railroad range effort. Thanks, John. Now I have to decide whether it's worth it for my purposes to spend more than twice as much for the standard as the Railroad model. Obviously, if money weren't a factor, it would be a no-brainer.
Now I have to look for a new LMS maroon Princess Coronation, of which there don't seem to be any currently on the market.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 14 Oct 2009 22:00 GMT ....
> Now I have to look for a new LMS maroon Princess Coronation, of which > there don't seem to be any currently on the market. But are you after the best - LMS "Duchess of Buccleuch" (R2230) or BR fake one ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-Duchess-of-Buccleuch-LMS-4-6-2-R2230-boxed_W0QQitem Z250512978185QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20091013?IMSfp=TL091013155001r21648
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 15 Oct 2009 05:07 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... > .... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > fake one ? > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-Duchess-of-Buccleuch-LMS-4-6-2-R2230-boxedW0QQitemZ 250512978185QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20091013?IMSfp=TL091013155001r21648 Has smoke deflectors. Won't ship outside UK. Tender drive?
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 15 Oct 2009 10:54 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> .... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Has smoke deflectors. Won't ship outside UK. Tender drive? R2230 was the first super detailed loco drive model and the only one so far released (outside sets) in LMS maroon. Do wonder if latest LMS black was supposed to be maroon but was a communication error with china ! Am sure all super detailed have smoke deflectors but was told on here recently that they are easily removed and all is fine behind. I have 2, one of which is awaiting SD's removal, weathering and poss rename/renumber. Wont ship outside UK ? oh well, is there someone that could forward it to you. Otherwise its about time a new one ws released by Hornby or keep an eye on Modelfair as they have them occasionally.
cheers, Simon
MartinS - 16 Oct 2009 03:59 GMT >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... .... >>>> Now I have to look for a new LMS maroon Princess Coronation, of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > released by Hornby or keep an eye on Modelfair as they have them > occasionally. I'll keep an eye out. Actually, my tender drive Princess Elizabeth is still running fairly well, so there's no rush.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 16 Oct 2009 11:03 GMT >>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... .... >>>>> Now I have to look for a new LMS maroon Princess Coronation, of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I'll keep an eye out. Actually, my tender drive Princess Elizabeth is > still running fairly well, so there's no rush. Not sure what running fairly well means but the loco drive Duchess (and Princess) is a mean machine, so smooth and has a slight growl as it goes that gives a hint of true power. Nothing but nothing comes close (LMS that is, maybe those lessor lookers but similar types A4 etc do as well). erm... do you want a Princess or a Duchess (Princess Coronation). In loco drive LMS theres Princess Aurthur R2225 which was released at same time as "Duchess of Buccleuch" and Princess Louise R2313 that has slightly later LMS maroon. Theres also at least 1 train pack - Royal ... - with Princess Elizabeth but for some curious reason that has overhead warning flashes.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 16 Oct 2009 22:05 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > pack - Royal ... - with Princess Elizabeth but for some curious reason > that has overhead warning flashes. Curiouser and curiouser.
Actually I'd be happy with a Duchess or a Princess, as long as it's not one of the formerly streamlined ones with a sloping firebox.
And I thought steam locos were supposed to chuff, not growl.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 16 Oct 2009 22:47 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > And I thought steam locos were supposed to chuff, not growl. Your on safe ground there, when streamlining removed Duchesses were painted black and Princesses never suffered the indignity of streamlining. Not sure if it growls or if romancing :-)
cheers, Simon
MartinS - 19 Oct 2009 19:16 GMT > Not sure what running fairly well means but the loco drive Duchess > (and Princess) is a mean machine, so smooth and has a slight growl as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > pack - Royal ... - with Princess Elizabeth but for some curious reason > that has overhead warning flashes. Any comments on this one? ebay.uk item no. 290360730939
It's 6201 Princess Elizabeth with warning flashes, presumably from the R1057 Royal Train set, but identifed as R2225. It's described as GWO, with "loose front wheels"; I've emailed the vendor for clarification on that. The starting price is very low (£19.99), but there could be a flurry of bidding before it ends tomorrow at 15:10 (10:10 for me). The vendor has a 99.7% rating and will post overseas for £8.
The Duchess of Buccleigh went on eBay for £67.09, not bad for as-new and boxed. Modelfair sold an R2225 that had been renumbered and renamed to Princess Elizabeth, without warning flashes, for £79.50.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 19 Oct 2009 21:22 GMT >> Not sure what running fairly well means but the loco drive Duchess >> (and Princess) is a mean machine, so smooth and has a slight growl as [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > boxed. Modelfair sold an R2225 that had been renumbered and renamed to > Princess Elizabeth, without warning flashes, for £79.50. Yep thats from train pack R1057. I have one split from set. Its as per 70's when pulling royal train, but livery near as can tell from as built with numbers/letters straw with black edge and lining gold/yellow also black edge. Theres some confusion as to whether lining was gold or yellow in 1935. As its from 70's explains why has warning flashes and speedo cable. I'm happy with it as is but do intend to give it light weathering and remove flashes when confident know how to do that. Will remove speedo as well. Mine, typical of Hornby Princesses is good runner but when got it, wheels were dirty either from some running or original black paint/muck that some new Hornby locos arrive with. I paid GBP65 for mine from local shop that I know to be reliable. Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 20 Oct 2009 03:31 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > know to be reliable. Cheers, > Simon Thanks - I'm watching it. I think "loose front wheels" may just be normal slop in the front bogie mounting.
 Signature Martin S.
MartinS - 20 Oct 2009 15:16 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> warning flashes. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Thanks - I'm watching it. I think "loose front wheels" may just be > normal slop in the front bogie mounting. I just won it for £70.99. Someone else had an automatic bid of up to £68.99. I guess that's a fair price in comparison to others. I just hope it's in as good condition as described - no box, of course.
 Signature Martin S.
Paul Boyd - 20 Oct 2009 18:03 GMT > I just won it for £70.99. Someone else had an automatic bid of up to > £68.99. Hmmm.... many people set their bids to just *above* the round pound because they know that most people bid in round pounds. Setting a bid to just *below* means that you're very likely to lose out by maybe just a penny, but it does mean that the price has been pushed up.
I'm also very wary about bidding on private auctions, especially where there is no reason whatsoever for the auction to be private as in this case. You have even less idea than usual as to who you're bidding against or how much activity with that seller your competing bidders have.
Not that I'm a cynical bugger or anything, but my suspicions have been aroused by that seller's listings. Anyway, you've presumably paid no more than you're happy to have paid ;-)
 Signature Paul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.me.uk/
MartinS - 20 Oct 2009 19:04 GMT >> I just won it for £70.99. Someone else had an automatic bid of up to >> £68.99. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > aroused by that seller's listings. Anyway, you've presumably paid no > more than you're happy to have paid ;-) I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be worth the price when I receive it, and hope there was no shill biddng. The seller has a 99.7% feedback rating, for what that's worth, going back to 2003.
Re my original post, I have also ordered Hornby Railroad R2779 A4 "Falcon", R2675 A1 "Flying Scotsman" and R2674 3F Jinty from Model Railways Direct to replace 2 tender-drive locos and a defunct Bachmann J72. I had taken the J72 apart for a second time to see why it was emitting smoke from the cab. I found the cause was arcing between the split frame and commutator, and as I powered it, the whole business melted and fused. It was a good little runner when I bought it but, as others have discovered, it was crap.
My only remaining previous-generation motive power are a 4-6-2T (with traction tyres removed) and a Lima Class 101 DMU. I would like to replace the noisy pancake motor in the latter with a new Hornby or equivalent motor. Can anyone recommend a reasonable cost solution?
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 20 Oct 2009 21:14 GMT >>> I just won it for £70.99. Someone else had an automatic bid of up to >>> £68.99. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > receive it, and hope there was no shill biddng. The seller has a 99.7% > feedback rating, for what that's worth, going back to 2003. I paid GBP68 for mine from Paul at Church Gresley so if its in good condition then I think its a fair price - Paul only charges that type.
> My only remaining previous-generation motive power are a 4-6-2T (with > traction tyres removed) and a Lima Class 101 DMU. I would like to > replace the noisy pancake motor in the latter with a new Hornby or > equivalent motor. Can anyone recommend a reasonable cost solution? Erm its diesel - sell it on ebay and use the money to get a rebuilt scot/patriot for GBP60 or a railroad 9F.
:-) Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 20 Oct 2009 23:05 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > scot/patriot for GBP60 or a railroad 9F. >:-) It's my one concession to the diesel age - DMUs were introduced when steam was still around, if not in Big 4 livery. I'm not picky about my periods - it's my railway and I'll run what I want.
I already have a Bachmann 9F with early BR crest. It's nice but it doesn't like some of my 2nd radius points.
 Signature Martin S.
Graham Thurlwell - 21 Oct 2009 19:07 GMT <snip>
> I had taken the J72 apart for a second time to see why it was > emitting smoke from the cab. I found the cause was arcing between the > split frame and commutator, and as I powered it, the whole business > melted and fused. Makes a change from the axles exploding, which is what usually happens to the ones we use.
> It was a good little runner when I bought it but, as > others have discovered, it was crap. If you haven't binned it, and the body hasn't melted, Mainly Trains do a very nice chassis and detailing kit for the J72. Ref. number is MT248. They also do a kit to convert the J72 into a J71 if you fancy a challenge. Ref. for that one is MT249. Etched nickel silver. How's your soldering? ;-)
Obviously, it's going to cost quite a bit more than just buying a replacement or ordering the spares from Bachmann but my Dad and I have bought several Bachmann J72s and only the most recent one works perfectly and only one other can be termed a runner (and is a little rough).
 Signature Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
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MartinS - 21 Oct 2009 22:17 GMT > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > perfectly and only one other can be termed a runner (and is a little > rough). I replaced it with a new Hornby Railroad LMS Jinty for £21.99. It didn't have to be an LNER shunter.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 22 Oct 2009 18:14 GMT >>> I just won it for £70.99. Someone else had an automatic bid of up to >>> £68.99. >> > I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be worth the price when I > receive it, and hope there was no shill biddng. The seller has a 99.7% > feedback rating, for what that's worth, going back to 2003. IMHO Assuming condition ok then youve got one of the best models of one of the best loco's at a fair price. So who cares about anything else - esp if you could have got it cheaper .....
Let us know how it goes.
cheers, Simon
MartinS - 22 Oct 2009 19:40 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Let us know how it goes. It could be a while. It was posted yesterday, so unless it got out of the UK by last night, it may end up in a black hole for weeks.
 Signature Martin S.
MartinS - 28 Oct 2009 23:44 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It could be a while. It was posted yesterday, so unless it got out of > the UK by last night, it may end up in a black hole for weeks. OK, I got my loco on Monday, only 5 days - it beat the strike.
It was, as expected, unboxed, and wrapped in copious amounts of bubble wrap. It may have been wrapped a little too tightly, as the tender connector was bent, which I was able to fix, but it ran unevenly due to some binding in the valve gear. I have tried to straighten things out but still haven't got it quite perfect. These components are very delicate! Otherwise, the model is in excellent condition.
One question that someone may be able to answer: there is some moulded pipework below the cab on the right side, but none on the left side, although it looks as though something might have been broken off. Should there be pipework on the left side of 6201 below the cab? I've tried to find clear pictures on the net, but I'm still not sure. Some of Horby's more recent BR models with the fixed trailing wheels appear to have pipework, but this one has the swinging bogie.
The Railroad range A1, A4 and 3F I ordered new have been held back until the strike is settled, so I haven't received them yet.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 29 Oct 2009 00:10 GMT > One question that someone may be able to answer: there is some moulded > pipework below the cab on the right side, but none on the left side, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more recent BR models with the fixed trailing wheels appear to have > pipework, but this one has the swinging bogie. Yep there is, tis to do with injector. looks different to that on RHS - simpler. Vaguely shaped as below. With 2 pipes on left joining the 3rd on right. Dimension of 1cm by 1 cm.
| | | | L---O L-------|-
HTH Simon
MartinS - 29 Oct 2009 00:39 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> One question that someone may be able to answer: there is some [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > | L---O > L-------|- Hmmm... Guess I'll have to make do without that.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 29 Oct 2009 00:49 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> One question that someone may be able to answer: there is some [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Hmmm... Guess I'll have to make do without that. Must admit I hadnt noticed it before so wouldnt worry about it. however you could make something up with bit of wire if you really wanted to.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 29 Oct 2009 05:14 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > however you could make something up with bit of wire if you really > wanted to. I dodn't think I want to badly enough. After all, the loco has no steps, and there's that annoying speedo cable that prevents you totally removing the body from the chassis. It's not that easy to get rid of, either, as it has a special fitting on the rear axle crankpin.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 29 Oct 2009 11:50 GMT > I dodn't think I want to badly enough. After all, the loco has no steps, > and there's that annoying speedo cable that prevents you totally > removing the body from the chassis. It's not that easy to get rid of, > either, as it has a special fitting on the rear axle crankpin. Dont say that, I want to remove speedo cable - or at least make it less obvious !
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 04 Nov 2009 01:02 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> I dodn't think I want to badly enough. After all, the loco has no [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dont say that, I want to remove speedo cable - or at least make it > less obvious ! Well, I managed to break it (flexible plastic) so I cut it off. The upper fitting is glued into the running board, I believe, and can be removed. It's harder to get rid of the axle fitting, but it's not too noticeable.
 Signature Martin S.
MartinS - 04 Nov 2009 02:53 GMT > The Railroad range A1, A4 and 3F I ordered new have been held back > until the strike is settled, so I haven't received them yet. I have now received the above 3 models. The A1 Flying Scotsman and A4 Falcon are excellent value for under £50, having the new chassis with fixed trailing pony truck and wide flangeless wheels. These are not noticeable, and also make it easier to rerail the loco.
However, the 8-wheel tenders appear to be on basically the same chassis as the old tender-drive version. They even have a dummy ringfield motor to add weight! In fact, I was able to swap over the (non-prototypical) trailing pony trucks for the old ones that already had Kadees attached to them - they still carry the same part number.
Both locos run very nicely, as does Princess Elizabeth now I have sorted out the valve gear problem. However, after only a couple of days the A1 lost a front axle crankpin at speed, causing it to jump the track. Luckily there was no apparent damage, and I found the pin beside the track. I had some difficulty getting it back in; it has ridges rather than threads, and pushes into a metal boss. If it comes loose again, I'll e-mail the vendor about an replacement.
The 3F Jinty is a bit of a disappointment, even though it cost only £22 (Hamley's wants £35!). It's an old body lacking a lot of detail, but the "upgraded" 0-6-0 chassis allows too little vertical and horizontal play in the axles to negotiate track irregularities. Some of my older Hornby turnouts have the insulated frog slightly higher than the running rails; as the centre driver passes over the frog, it lifts the other 2 wheels on that side, breaking electrical contact and often causing a derailment. Hornby's older 6-coupled tank loco design was much more accommodating, with the weight on the front two axles, traction tyres on the centre axle (which also had reduced flanges), and a floating rear axle held in contact with the track by springs. My 1990s 2-6-4T with this arrangement (and a 3-pole motor) runs well without hesitation or derailment on turnouts; I have removed the traction tyres and it hauls 3 suburban coaches with no slippage.
This is a case where a "new and improved" design creates problems that the previous design managed to avoid. My 3 Pacifics and Black 5, with full flanges on all loco and tender wheels, negotiate turnouts and sharp curves better than the 3F. My Bachmann J74, with its now burned out motor, was problem-free when new. I can't quite say the same for my Bachmann 9F with its 10-coupled wheelbase, but it does negotiate both tracks of my main oval.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 04 Nov 2009 13:04 GMT > The 3F Jinty is a bit of a disappointment, even though it cost only £22 > (Hamley's wants £35!). It's an old body lacking a lot of detail, but the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the centre axle (which also had reduced flanges), and a floating rear > axle held in contact with the track by springs. So the rear wheel is no longer sprung on railroad Jinty ?
cheers, Simon
MartinS - 04 Nov 2009 18:06 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > So the rear wheel is no longer sprung on railroad Jinty ? No. The axles are all in brass bearings with very little free play. That's progress for you!
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 04 Nov 2009 22:24 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > No. The axles are all in brass bearings with very little free play. > That's progress for you! Pity about that, railroad stuff supposed to be good runners - 9F certainly is. Sotto voce - of course youve checked B2B.....
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 04 Nov 2009 23:55 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > certainly is. > Sotto voce - of course youve checked B2B..... 14.2mm
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 05 Nov 2009 00:08 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > 14.2mm FM Guage ? Could it do with some weight ?
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 05 Nov 2009 05:00 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > FM Guage ? > Could it do with some weight ? FM? I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly flat turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 05 Nov 2009 11:50 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly flat > turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help. 14mm :-)
Cheers, Simon
Greg.Procter - 05 Nov 2009 19:18 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly flat > turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help. Once I lay my turnouts I run a circa 8" x 3" fine sharpening stone over them in a figure 8 pattern. 30 seconds of gentle movement is usually enough and the high spots show up very quickly. Frogs are the usual high point, especially plastic frogs. Comparing smoothness of running before and after is impressive.
Greg.P. NZ
simon - 05 Nov 2009 21:22 GMT >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Greg.P. > NZ Once again I didnt read what was written correctly. Older Hornby points - dump ASAP - alternately as Greg says file with something till level.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 06 Nov 2009 02:24 GMT >> I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly >> flat turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > usual high point, especially plastic frogs. Comparing smoothness of > running before and after is impressive. I might try that, if I can't get them to lie flat any other way. I thought of using a hair dryer or heat gun while gently bending the plastic sleepers.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 06 Nov 2009 11:00 GMT >>> I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly >>> flat turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of using a hair dryer or heat gun while gently bending the plastic > sleepers. Not glued down ? If not then do so and leave heavy weight on top. If base not flat then glue to shim glued to base.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 06 Nov 2009 20:27 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Not glued down ? If not then do so and leave heavy weight on top. If > base not flat then glue to shim glued to base. They are on flexible cork underlay, at the moment just pinned down.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 06 Nov 2009 21:08 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > They are on flexible cork underlay, at the moment just pinned down. Be suprised if anyone suggested not gluing down, although if you want to replace Hornby points with Peco ones first they are much better.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 07 Nov 2009 04:20 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Be suprised if anyone suggested not gluing down, although if you want > to replace Hornby points with Peco ones first they are much better. I have old first-radius curved points in the fiddle yard.
 Signature Martin S.
Greg.Procter - 10 Nov 2009 19:53 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > They are on flexible cork underlay, at the moment just pinned down. Under those circumstances you _really_ need flat turnouts. Try not to sit on them in the car on the way home! ;-)
Greg.P.
Greg.Procter - 10 Nov 2009 19:51 GMT >>> I don't think that would help. What might help would be perfectly >>> flat turnouts, but some side-to-side axle play would also help. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > of using a hair dryer or heat gun while gently bending the plastic > sleepers. Ahh, now that's a different problem! At least MY Peco points have always been flat to start with. I pin them so that they sit where they should be while I ballast and glue them. The pins are then superfluous and get pulled out. If you're quick enough the pin holes in the plastic close up again. The remaining problem is that the frogs are usually not level with the running rails, so far they have always been high, so the sharpening stone treatment has always worked. Ditto for GF and several other brands.
Greg.P.
John Turner - 07 Nov 2009 12:00 GMT From: "MartinS" Subject: Re: 1:76 LNER A4 models
> Some of my older Hornby turnouts have the insulated frog slightly higher > than the running rails; as the centre driver passes over the frog, it > lifts the other 2 wheels on that side, breaking electrical contact and > often causing a derailment. 1) Don't use Hornby points
2) Why not just file the frog slightly & reduce it's height.
John.
MartinS - 07 Nov 2009 21:54 GMT > From: "MartinS" > Subject: Re: 1:76 LNER A4 models [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > 2) Why not just file the frog slightly & reduce it's height. 1} Peco don't make the same ones; neither does Hornby anymore.
2) I could try that, but then I'd have filed frogs.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 07 Nov 2009 22:11 GMT >> From: "MartinS" >> Subject: Re: 1:76 LNER A4 models [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 2) I could try that, but then I'd have filed frogs. In my admitedly limited experience pinned track wont stay in same place forever. So you file it now and then it moves and requires further modification or replacement. So recon first glue it as flat as possible then see if filing required.
The best action however, is as said, for you to get rid of Hornby points, at the same time move up a radius so more engines can use the fiddle yard. Pin new track, play with it, glue new track, remove pins (if you want to).
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 07 Nov 2009 22:55 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> From: "MartinS" [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > fiddle yard. Pin new track, play with it, glue new track, remove pins > (if you want to). Problem is, space is very tight, which is why I used 1st radius points. If I changed them, I'd have to completely relay the fiddle yard, maybe lose one siding, and they'd be shorter.
 Signature Martin S.
simon - 07 Nov 2009 23:46 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> From: "MartinS" [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > If I changed them, I'd have to completely relay the fiddle yard, maybe > lose one siding, and they'd be shorter. Understand, its a balence that only you can decide. Could a 3-way point help ?
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 08 Nov 2009 06:05 GMT > "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Understand, its a balence that only you can decide. Could a 3-way > point help ? Only if the 3 are all curved the same way!
 Signature Martin S.
Greg.Procter - 10 Nov 2009 19:59 GMT >> "MartinS" <me@my.place> wrote... >>>> From: "MartinS" [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > If I changed them, I'd have to completely relay the fiddle yard, maybe > lose one siding, and they'd be shorter. It's quite practical to trim turnouts considerably so that tracks can be closer. I have tracks at about 45mm spacing in my straight fiddle yard. Don't trim closer than two rigid sleepers to the points end (one past the spring pivot on Peco turnouts) I use a Dremel to cut fishplates to half length so that the sleeper rail fixings can remain in place. The shorter curve allows marginal locos to get through ie like a large radius turnout.
Greg.P.
simon - 10 Nov 2009 21:06 GMT > It's quite practical to trim turnouts considerably so that tracks can be > closer. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Greg.P. Now thats a good idea !
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 11 Nov 2009 05:46 GMT >> Problem is, space is very tight, which is why I used 1st radius >> points. If I changed them, I'd have to completely relay the fiddle [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The shorter curve allows marginal locos to get through ie like a large > radius turnout. I have six fiddle tracks at 48mm spacing (the width of a cork ballast strip) achieved through a combination of first and second radius curved points, to maximise the length of the straight storage tracks within the main oval on my 6' x 8' baseboard.
 Signature Martin S.
Graham Thurlwell - 07 Nov 2009 20:49 GMT <snip>
> My Bachmann J74, with its now burned out motor, was problem-free when new. Assuming you mean the J72, that's actually the most frustrating thing about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly start to fail.
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MartinS - 07 Nov 2009 23:24 GMT > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly > start to fail. I guess I do. Mine started to emit smoke from the cab. Found there was arcing from the frame to the commutator. Finally got so hot it melted.
 Signature Martin S.
Graham Thurlwell - 09 Nov 2009 22:33 GMT >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly >> start to fail.
> I guess I do. Mine started to emit smoke from the cab. Found there was > arcing from the frame to the commutator. Finally got so hot it melted. Funny thing is, none of ours burnt out. Every single casualty appears to have been the axles failing. They start to click while running, then the click becomes a clunk and finally a ludicrously loud bang before the bloody things stop running at all.
It's such a shame as the bodies are bloody good and compare well to photographs - I compared the Mainline J72 body [1] I have with the photos of the real engine in Vol. 43A of Yeadon's Register and I'm hard-pressed to find much difference.
I heard a rumour recently that Bachmann are planning on developing new chassis for all of their older LNER models. Not before time.
Notes:-
1. The one I'm planning to convert to a J71 using the Mainly Trains conversion kit I mentioned on this group a while back.
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John Turner - 10 Nov 2009 12:35 GMT > Assuming you mean the J72, that's actually the most frustrating thing > about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly > start to fail. Everything mechanical fails at some time; in fact I becoming increasingly convinced that many items (outside the model railway field) are designed to fail much more quickly than in the past.
My pet (non-mechanical) hate is toothbrushes that seem to last a week or less before becoming unusable, but it does guarantee I buy lots of them.
John.
simon - 10 Nov 2009 13:48 GMT > My pet (non-mechanical) hate is toothbrushes that seem to last a week or > less before becoming unusable, but it does guarantee I buy lots of them. > > John. And you are using these as per instructions ? Mine equiv hate is items that are unusable cos one part has failed and it cannot be replaced. Typical is taps that leak.
Cheers, Simon
MartinS - 11 Nov 2009 04:04 GMT > "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mine equiv hate is items that are unusable cos one part has failed and > it cannot be replaced. Typical is taps that leak. I have one of those - an outside hose tap. The screw holding the washer is seized, and the new type is a different design so I have to buy a whole new tap instead of just a washer, then find the propane torch and solder.
 Signature Martin S.
Wolf K - 10 Nov 2009 13:54 GMT >> Assuming you mean the J72, that's actually the most frustrating thing >> about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > convinced that many items (outside the model railway field) are designed to > fail much more quickly than in the past. They're designed a) for replacement, not repair, and b) to fail all at once, since it makes no sense to include parts of different design lifetimes when the item will not be repaired.
And there _is_ a difference in electronic parts. They are produced by the tens of thousands by machine. Random sample testing (using Bayesian probability, if you want to know) grades the batches, and the batches that are more likely to contain more than a specified percentage of bad parts are sold for less. Manufacturers (such as Bachmann) that must meet a price point will buy the cheaper parts. That's why so much consumer product fails. It's cheaper for them to replace or repair items than to buy more expensive parts. And of course they set the warranty period to ensure that most failures will occur well after it.
cheers wolf k.
beamends - 10 Nov 2009 14:08 GMT >> Assuming you mean the J72, that's actually the most frustrating thing >> about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly start [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > increasingly convinced that many items (outside the model railway field) > are designed to fail much more quickly than in the past. You are quite right to think that - products, both electronic and mechanical, are designed to have a specific life-span, invariably based on the warranty period. It might sound like manufacturers are pulling a fast one (which is true to some extent - the milk float manufacturers all went bust because milk floats simply never needed replacing, so when everyone had one there was no market for new ones) but it's also down to us. A resistor costing 0.1p may have a Mean Time Between Failures of, say, 1000 hours, meaning some will fail immediately (around 5%), the majority (90%) will survive the whole 1000 hours (or long enough for warranty anyway), and some (the remaining 5%) will work "forever". A 1p resistor may "never" fail, and a 2p resistor will be guaranteed to work and last (and be a much more accurate value), having been tested after manufacture. The trouble is, if we see a radio going for 10 quid (cheap and cheerful) or 15 quid (with 2p resistors in it) we always go for the cheap one and are then surprised when it fails. The same goes for washing machines - I know a bod who used to work for Creda at Blythe Bridge (now made overseas), and he was adamant that for 50 quid extra they could make a machine that would last "a lifetime", but there was no point when £5 means the difference between a machine selling or not.
It's one of the things that we should really be looking at to protect the environment, and conspicuously don't. How much better it would be if, rather than worrying about re-cycling so much, we insisted products were better made thereby reducing the need to re-cycle in the first place. Ok, the young couple setting up home night struggle to buy themselves a nice new shiny washing machine (just like in the good old days!!), but how much better that would be than having to worry that, as the machine is 3 years old, it's going to fail any time now?
> My pet (non-mechanical) hate is toothbrushes that seem to last a week or > less before becoming unusable, but it does guarantee I buy lots of them. It's not just you there either - I've got quite a collection of duff ones too. I now use the good old Mk. 1 hand driven model ;-) I've also got a ruck of B&Q and Silverline (same thing, different label) soldering irons that were about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike....
> John. Cheers Richard
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MartinS - 11 Nov 2009 04:01 GMT >> Assuming you mean the J72, that's actually the most frustrating thing >> about them. They're beautiful runners and then they just suddenly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > or less before becoming unusable, but it does guarantee I buy lots of > them. Well, if you will buy them in bulk at Poundstretchers, what do you expect?
 Signature Martin S.
John Turner - 11 Nov 2009 10:01 GMT > Well, if you will buy them in bulk at Poundstretchers, what do you expect? Funny that, becuae it doesn't seem to matter how much I spend, they rarely last more than a week. The best ones I've had recently (Wisdom) were from Poundland in Scunthorpe - two for a quid - and the first of them is still going strong after three weeks!!!
John.
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