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Model Forum / General / Railroads / December 2009Something for the north - at last
I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model manufacturers is to produce a 4mm scale (OO-gauge) ready-to-run model of an LNER/BR L1 2-6-4T in 2010. John. >I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model manufacturers is >to produce a 4mm scale (OO-gauge) ready-to-run model of an LNER/BR L1 2-6-4T >in 2010. I w00t! In fact I want a British Standard Several of them... Guy  Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. > I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model manufacturers is > to produce a 4mm scale (OO-gauge) ready-to-run model of an LNER/BR L1 2-6-4T > in 2010. The Thompson one? Didn't think they'd be particularly popular. All but the prototype were built after nationalisation and the prototype (9000/67701) itself was built in May 1945 so any LNER interest would be limited to the post-war period which few people model AFAIK. SignatureJades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web. nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address! > The Thompson one? Didn't think they'd be particularly popular. All but > the prototype were built after nationalisation and the prototype > (9000/67701) itself was built in May 1945 so any LNER interest would > be limited to the post-war period which few people model AFAIK. It will be more popular up here than all of the Southern rubbish that's been churned out in the last few years. Mind I could think of any number of other former LNER prototypes which would have far greater sales potential. John. >> The Thompson one? Didn't think they'd be particularly popular. All but >> the prototype were built after nationalisation and the prototype [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John. Ah, but not many of those would use a 2-6-4 chassis John, something the 2 major players already have in the parts bin. Or am I just being cynical? Merry Xmas, Badger. >> The Thompson one? Didn't think they'd be particularly popular. All but >> the prototype were built after nationalisation and the prototype [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John. Another kit year then ? Cheers, Simon <snip> > Another kit year then ? Davd Alexander has new kits for LNER J77 (the 0-6-0 BTP/G6 rebuilds) N8, N9 and N10s coming out next year. Saw the prototype castings for the J77 on his stand at Blyth. Very nice indeed. SignatureJades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web. nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address! >> The Thompson one? Didn't think they'd be particularly popular. All but >> the prototype were built after nationalisation and the prototype [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > other former LNER prototypes which would have far greater sales > potential. Like a B17? :) Fred X > Like a B17? :) Most definitely not. Why re-tool a model that's been in the catalogue for donkeys years; it must restrict potential sales. There's so many former LNER locos which have never been modelled, and which had a wider area of operation. I just despair. John. <snip rant about retooling> : I just despair. As you do each and ever year at this time John, you never seem to be happy, by your logic Hornby should be still selling the old Triang-Hornby 'Flying Scotsman' A3... ><snip rant about retooling> >: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >be happy, by your logic Hornby should be still selling the old >Triang-Hornby 'Flying Scotsman' A3... I take it that you don't model the NE region, then? It is rather tiresome having endless new models of A3 and A4 pacifics trotted out (albeit rather nice ones these days) but only the rather elderly Hornby N2 for general or branch traction. We all know that the A3 and A4 are only retooled because they are sexy, they are of distinctly limited practical use to a modeller even one like me whose layout will accommodate a platform over 3.5m long. John's right: there are many more pressing needs for an NE region modeller than yet another A3, even if I do have two (tender and loco drive), and really they start with the basic everyday locos. An L1 will be most welcome, and for that matter almost any RTR workhorse should sell. My personal wishlist includes a B1 and an Ivatt C12. A J15 ought to find a ready market having been in service for about 80 years so spanning a lot of modelling periods, and a retooling of the absolutely dire J72 currently on offer is well overdue. I believe that LNER's most numerous types were 0-6-0 tender and tank locos, this is an area that as far as I can tell lacks a single decent RTR model. Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. > As you do each and ever year at this time John, you never seem to > be happy, by your logic Hornby should be still selling the old > Triang-Hornby 'Flying Scotsman' A3... There are some keynote locomotives which are of such significance that they can stand repeated re-tooling. 'Flying Scotsman' and 'Mallard' being two examples. Others are worthy of their slot in time, but perhaps are best left alone after that, allowing others to come to the fore. John. > "Fred X" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > John. Given that's exactly what they've done with the spamcans, black 5, A3, A4, 8F, schools, castle, duchess and princess (off the top of my head) it obviously works well as a business model. > Given that's exactly what they've done with the spamcans, black 5, A3, > A4, 8F, schools, castle, duchess and princess (off the top of my head) > it obviously works well as a business model. But how much better might it have been with completely new prototypes? John. >> Given that's exactly what they've done with the spamcans, black 5, A3, >> A4, 8F, schools, castle, duchess and princess (off the top of my head) >> it obviously works well as a business model. > > But how much better might it have been with completely new prototypes? I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering their albums for the umpteenth time! Fred X > I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for > selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering > their albums for the umpteenth time! How many 'Grimsby Town' locos would the typical footies fan want? ;-) John. >> I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for >> selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering >> their albums for the umpteenth time! > > How many 'Grimsby Town' locos would the typical footies fan want? ;-) Grimsby Town played in Cleethorpes! Grimsby Town was also a railway station. SignatureMartin S. >>> I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for >>> selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Grimsby Town played in Cleethorpes! And Berwick Rangers is an English team playing in the Scottish League. >> I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for >> selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John. Well on the basis of one each, probably about half a dozen...:-) SignatureRegards John >>> I presume the logic in choosing to retool the B17 is the potential for >>> selling them to football fans! Again. It's like the Beatles remastering [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Regards > John Historically, Hornby always seem to make the first release of a new model in a less than popular livery. That way they get to sell to customers who "must have" the latest release. They will probably save Manchester United (assuming that 61662 is identical to 61650) until the moulds are wearing out or times are particularly hard. Regards, Riddles > Historically, Hornby always seem to make the first release of a new model > in a less than popular livery. That way they get to sell to customers who > "must have" the latest release. They could still have that 'must have' customer if they produced in a popular livery. I don't understand the logic of what you say, even if it does appear to be true. They do seem to have a knack of producing things in liveries with little demand. John. : > Historically, Hornby always seem to make the first release of a new model : > in a less than popular livery. That way they get to sell to customers who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : popular livery. I don't understand the logic of what you say, even if it : does appear to be true. They get two sales out of such customers, the "must have a first relese", to show off and boost their ego, and the second sale is for the model that is the more practical - so expect the L1 to be released first as 9000 in LNER Apple Green and then followed by the BR black versions... > They get two sales out of such customers, the "must have a first > relese", to show off and boost their ego, and the second sale is > for the model that is the more practical - so expect the L1 to be > released first as 9000 in LNER Apple Green and then followed by > the BR black versions... If I wanted one or two L1s, you'd never persuade me to buy an inappropriate livery whichever arrived first. Bit like the sound-equipped class 50 Hornby have just released in Dutch livery, interest in that has been zilch, whereas BR blue, large logo blue or NSE would have sold. They seem to have a death wish with some of their recent diesel livery releases. John. >If I wanted one or two L1s, you'd never persuade me to buy an inappropriate >livery whichever arrived first. Is there a market, do you think, for part-assembled unpainted versions of standard models? I know that there is a thriving market in decals for renumbering, I wonder if this might feed into the same groups of enthusiasts. Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. > Is there a market, do you think, for part-assembled unpainted versions > of standard models? I know that there is a thriving market in decals > for renumbering, I wonder if this might feed into the same groups of > enthusiasts. There's probably a market for everything, the secret is knowing how big that market might be. Why might there be a market for part-assembled models? Didn't Tri-ang briefly try something similar in the 1960s with their CKD (Completely Knocked Down) kits of locos, coaches etc? They didn't remain on the market for long - I suspect for three reasons: a) they were only marginally cheaper than fully finished models, b) the difficulty in painting & lining such items to the same standard as factory finished models & c) the market didn't want them Interestingly the North Americans produced much of their freight rolling stock in kit form (although pretty much ready painted & lettered) until fairly recently. Since the discovery of (relatively & declining) cheap labour in China, they have significantly moved to completely finished models - I assume because that's what the market really wants. John. >> Is there a market, do you think, for part-assembled unpainted versions >> of standard models? I know that there is a thriving market in decals [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >labour in China, they have significantly moved to completely finished >models - I assume because that's what the market really wants. The part-assembled is down to the detail parts not being fitted until colour coat is applied (I am sure most of us do this with kits). I agree about lining, but there are probably ways round that with decals. I don't know, perhaps all I want is un-numbered models and optional parts for slightly different variants. My problem is simple: I have a large layout and typically want more than one of several classes of loco (I will definitely want more than one L1 if / when they come out). Renumbering is not terribly hard, of course. My other pet peeve is manufacturers not leaving enough room for decoders. That is changing as DCC becomes more common, thankfully. Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. <snip> : perhaps all I want is un-numbered models and : optional parts for slightly different variants. Hornby tried that too, obviously (as they don't offer such models now) it wasn't much of a success, probably because we are becoming nothing but a nation of 'box openers' - not just were model railways are concerned either, we seem want and expect everything served on a plate these days. > : perhaps all I want is un-numbered models and > : optional parts for slightly different variants. > > Hornby tried that too, obviously (as they don't offer such models > now) it wasn't much of a success (snipped). I suspect that's true & Hornby probably consider it reduces their opportunity for issuing future numbering variations. Dapol also tried supplying undecorated goods wagons (presumably in response to a market clamouring for them) but real demand was abysmal. John, <snip> : Dapol also tried supplying undecorated goods wagons (presumably in response : to a market clamouring for them) but real demand was abysmal. I could never see much point in those, except perhaps the 5 and 7 plank RCH open wagons (were modellers might well have used then as a base for non-available PO liveries), for grouping and BR wagons it just seemed pointless and I suspect that the sales figures proved this. Most people don't seem to be so worried about repeat running numbers on coaches and wagon stock either so even that 'problem' is mostly a non issue too. Snip > They seem to have a death wish with some of their recent diesel livery > releases. > > John. I have never understood why they have never released 46229 Duchess of Hamilton which would have sold like hot cakes! Prior to being re-streamlined it/she was a very popular mainline charter performer. For 2010 apparently we will be able to have a choice of City of Lancaster or City of Coventry, both in the same very attractive maroon livery that 46229 carried. Similarly with the humble Austerity. As well as the very nice NCB and company liveries, they have done 8 different BR Black variations but, as far as I am aware, the ones they have done are no longer in existence. They have never done 68030, which has worked on the Churnet Valley, East Lancs., and Strathspey railways (probably others) so would surely have been the most popular. They (and Dapol) have done 68080 so it is quite easy to re-number but it is a mystery to me as to why they have missed this opportunity. Riddles > I have never understood why they have never released 46229 Duchess of > Hamilton which would have sold like hot cakes! They did, and you obviously missed it like many others, but it was released in streamlined form before DoH was finally re-streamlined. It really needed to be on the market around the time that the NRM unveiled the newly streamlined loco. Another missed opportunity, and of course not one compensated for with an unpopular choice of prototype. John. : > I have never understood why they have never released 46229 Duchess of : > Hamilton which would have sold like hot cakes! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : to be on the market around the time that the NRM unveiled the newly : streamlined loco. IYO John, OTOH releasing it after the project launch but before completion (of fund raising or work) is one way that Hornby were able to help raise awareness of the project. IIRC they have done something similar with 4472 Flying Scotsman also. >> I have never understood why they have never released 46229 Duchess of >> Hamilton which would have sold like hot cakes! > They did, and you obviously missed it like many others, but it was > released in streamlined form before DoH was finally re-streamlined. It [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John. I did know that they released 6229 (reference R2689) but I was particularly referring to the de-streamlined BR maroon version behind which I and many others have travelled. I had wondered if Hornby might have released both versions packaged together at a "premium" price. Riddles >> They get two sales out of such customers, the "must have a first >> relese", to show off and boost their ego, and the second sale is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > They seem to have a death wish with some of their recent diesel livery > releases. Indeed! I think that the decision to release such an expensive version in an obscure livery is one of the most bizarre that Hornby has made in recent years! It was a bit like when Bachmann first released their Class 45 in a special white roofed livery that was probably applied to just a few examples of the class. Fred X > Indeed! I think that the decision to release such an expensive version > in an obscure livery is one of the most bizarre that Hornby has made in > recent years! If you look at many of the diesel locos released 'with sound' there are some very strange choices. Certainly I'd have wanted to see sound-equipped classes 31, 50 and 56 in blue or large logo blue with the first of those in green too, but have Hornby done any of these? No. I can only think this represents opportunities lost, as I'm sure that sound is likely to be a short-lived phenomena, if only because of the cost. At least there's a green 08 shunter promised with sound this year. John. <snip> : I only think this represents opportunities lost, as I'm : re that sound is likely to be a short-lived phenomena, : if only because of the cost. Not so sure, once DCC chipped stock becomes the norm manufacturers might well find that it's cheaper to just offer sound as standard, the hardware doesn't cost that much, it's the work involved to find the space within the loco and engineer the firmware that cost - a parallel could be drawn with air-con in cars, once a high cost option, now it's getting increasingly difficult to find some car makes/models *without* air-con. > Not so sure, once DCC chipped stock becomes the norm > manufacturers might well find that it's cheaper to just offer > sound as standard, the hardware doesn't cost that much, I've got several sound-equipped locos (none of which are Hornby, due to the previously mentioned poor choice of prototype liveries) and I have to say that after a while the sound becomes tiresome. We've already seen a marked reluctance amongst our customer base to pay the ever-increasing prices demanded by Hornby for their standard loco (and rolling stock) models. Prices for sound-equipped locos will have to drop significantly for them to become every day purchases for the modelling fraternity at large. Sure, really keen enthusiasts will shell out for some sound fitted models, but when they've accumulated three or four will the majority of them really want more? John. : > Not so sure, once DCC chipped stock becomes the norm : > manufacturers might well find that it's cheaper to just offer [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : when they've accumulated three or four will the majority of them really want : more? You missed my point, there might not be an option to buy a non sound equipped model, the user option will be if you enable the sound via the DCC chip, the difference in cost will be little or nothing as the economies of scale will come into play. At the moment sound is seen by the manufactures as a cash-cow, fit a couple of quid's worth of electronics into a loco and put an extra £xx on the MRP price. > You missed my point, there might not be an option to buy a non > sound equipped model, the user option will be if you enable the > sound via the DCC chip, the difference in cost will be little or > nothing as the economies of scale will come into play. You missed my point too Jerry, that customers are already complaining about the cost of Hornby's latest offerings even without sound; even a small extra cost may push the price beyond the point of acceptability to more & more people. As that reluctance increases, then the volume of sales will decline and further push up the costs. You're also assuming that DCC will become the norm. I not completely convinced about that, and it may only be a transitional fad which could easily give way to - say rechargeable on-board battery operated radio controlled models. John. : > You missed my point, there might not be an option to buy a non : > sound equipped model, the user option will be if you enable the : > sound via the DCC chip, the difference in cost will be little or : > nothing as the economies of scale will come into play. : : You missed my point too Jerry, that customers are already complaining about I think that might say more about your customers John! The problem is that people have been spoilt, remember that not so long ago most people still talked about their ONE (locomotive) purchase of the year, now many talk about two, three or more per year, the same sorts of complaints occoured back in the late 1980s when the supply of cheap ex Airfix and Palitoy stock - started to dry up and people were faced with a jump in costs, it didn't do Bachmann or Hornby much harm did it? : the cost of Hornby's latest offerings even without sound; even a small extra : cost may push the price beyond the point of acceptability to more & more But that was my point, the warehouse door price probably won't be any more, due to the economies of scale. : people. As that reluctance increases, then the volume of sales will decline : and further push up the costs. Or drive costs/labour rates down in China, remember that China is about the only modernised country in the world that can (by state order) reduce such costs to keep business. Of course Hornby and Bachmann might just decide you reduce their own profit margines. : You're also assuming that DCC will become the norm. I not completely : convinced about that, and it may only be a transitional fad which could : easily give way to - say rechargeable on-board battery operated radio : controlled models. Doubtful, unless Ofcom have a complete rethink on the unlicensed RF spectrum in the UK... I would suggest that DCC is here to stay, what might change is how trains are operated via DCC, we already have a thread about using a computer as an interface, I suggest that control will be either directly via the keys on a keyboard and a 'jog-shuttle' wheel, via a pre-programmed timetable of movements (real time or accelerated) or a combination of both - for example on the through station and fiddle yard type layouts, the operator(s) could be in control of the signals and station area/shunting type movements but not the 'supply of trains' IYSWIM. >You missed my point too Jerry, that customers are already complaining about >the cost of Hornby's latest offerings even without sound; even a small extra >cost may push the price beyond the point of acceptability to more & more >people. You may well be right. I would quite like to see the sound pack sold as a separate item that you could order separately to retro-fit or have fitted to any livery at the factory, ordered though your retailer of choice. You're probably going to tell me they already do that and I'm to dim to spot it :-) Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. >> You missed my point too Jerry, that customers are already complaining about >> the cost of Hornby's latest offerings even without sound; even a small extra [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Guy Over here the difference between a DC and a DCC/sound loco is about $100. That's pretty consistent. Sound decoders costs from about $20 to about $85. Speakers cost $10 or less, and baffles are under $5. So a minimal DCC/sound installation in a DC loco will cost around $35 to $100. I infer that the price difference is on the high side, but not too much so, considering that there will be mark-ups all along the line. Of course there's no guarantee that after-market components will deliver the same quality as factory installed ones. cheers, wolf k. <snip> : Over here the difference between a DC and a DCC/sound loco is about : $100. That's pretty consistent. Sound decoders costs from about $20 to : about $85. Speakers cost $10 or less, and baffles are under $5. So a : minimal DCC/sound installation in a DC loco will cost around $35 to : $100. I infer that the price difference is on the high side, but not too : much so, considering that there will be mark-ups all along the line. Assuming that the above is the retail cost, what we need to know is the unit cost at the component level and in production run quantities - information that might not be so easy to obtain without inside contacts - only then can a guess be made as to what the retail price might be should sound decoder systems become a standard fitment and the economies of production scale kick in. On Dec 30, 11:08 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: > <snip> > : [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > become a standard fitment and the economies of production scale > kick in. A good rule of thumb for MR items is a street price of 4 to 5x the component cost. Out of that comes manufacturing, programming, testing, packaging, advertising, freight, manufacturers margin, distributor margin, dealer margin. Once you get passed the first few 100s of units the drop in component and maufacturing costs for volume is pretty small compared to the initial price drop for the first few 100. If you're making 10s of 1,000,000s and can dedicate a whole line 24/7 to one product, then you can save a bit more but there just isn't the volume for MR products. MBQ <snip> : If you're making 10s of 1,000,000s and can dedicate : a whole line 24/7 to one product, then you can save : a bit more but there just isn't the volume for MR products. But many of these electronic items are manufactured by the 1,000,000s. It's just the final assembly that is unique, how much does it cost to substitute one IC for another (bearing in mind that the pin layout is the same) and how much will adding a speaker to every loco cost extra - it's any? The only really specialist component is the firmware, designing it and then flashing the chip, so that a Deltic sounds like a Deltic and not a O8 Shunter or worse still some N.American diesel! <snip> : The only really specialist : component is the firmware, designing it and then flashing the : chip, so that a Deltic sounds like a Deltic and not a O8 Shunter : or worse still some N.American diesel! And just to add, having read "Riddles" comments about the costs of authoring unique firmware for different locos, the extra cost of a *non* generic firmware could be the optional extra (rather than the basic sound option), being offered at the point of sale - the dealer would flash the firmware - or as a internet download in the same way as (free) Bios updates, as Third-party software or commercially like iTunes (or what ever) downloads. On Dec 31, 1:56 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: > <snip> > : The only really specialist [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > download in the same way as (free) Bios updates, as Third-party > software or commercially like iTunes (or what ever) downloads. I suspect he means the sound samples rather than firmware. MBQ On Dec 31, 1:56 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: > "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > download in the same way as (free) Bios updates, as Third-party > software or commercially like iTunes (or what ever) downloads. I suspect he means the sound samples rather than firmware. MBQ Dont want no dealer flashing his firmware at my locos thank you. Cheers, Simon <snip> : Dont want no dealer flashing his firmware at my locos thank you. Not even when the 'he' is a she?!... > <snip> > : > : Dont want no dealer flashing his firmware at my locos thank > you. > > Not even when the 'he' is a she?!... Considering the type of 'lady' that would do that then perhaps not. Cheers, Simon On Dec 31, 1:17 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But many of these electronic items are manufactured by the > 1,000,000s. I thought we were talking about DCC (sound) decoders. Production runs are way less than 1,000,000s for decoders. MBQ On Dec 31, 1:17 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: <snip> : > But many of these electronic items are manufactured : > by the 1,000,000s. : I thought we were talking about DCC (sound) decoders. : Production runs are way less than 1,000,000s for decoders. We are, OTOH are you implying that the **components** that make up "DCC (sound ) decoders" are unique items of electronics, not used or manufactured for other circuits? On Dec 31, 3:44 pm, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote: > <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > up "DCC (sound ) decoders" are unique items of electronics, not > used or manufactured for other circuits? No, what I'm getting at is that you only get the 1,000,000 off price for components if you buy 1,000,000. Anyone making decoders, in much lower volumes, will be paying the 1,000 off price, say, unless there's another side of their business using huge volumes of ther same components. MBQ >Over here the difference between a DC and a DCC/sound loco is about >$100. That's pretty consistent. Sound decoders costs from about $20 to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Of course there's no guarantee that after-market components will deliver >the same quality as factory installed ones. Yes, that all makes sense. The issue here, for me anyway, is that there is only one chassis but multiple liveries; I suspect that I am wrong about the idea though because I suspect they batch-manufacture and then sell from stock rather than using JIT techniques. Guy Signaturehttp://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/ The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed to be worth the price paid. > Over here the difference between a DC and a DCC/sound loco is about $100. > That's pretty consistent. Sound decoders costs from about $20 to about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cheers, > wolf k. The cost of accurately recording the actual sounds does not seem to have been factored into the cost of manufacturing the decoder. Where specific steam sounds are required, engines have had to be steamed for the sole purpose and put through all operations which can create sound. This has naturally been done on impoverished "heritage" lines which need to recover their full costs and more importantly earn something extra for the coffers. This applies equally to the loco owners of course. For their Duchess sound, Hornby had recordings made on Duchess of Sutherland and unwittingly made a feature of the airpump which is unique in the class to this one loco. I understand that the second batch of City of Sheffield has had this removed. Riddles > Of course there's no guarantee that after-market components will deliver > the same quality as factory installed ones. The few after-market installations I've seen have provided signifantly better sound quality than the factory installed examples, in particular in 'Deltic' models. But then they have been fitted with multiple speakers to get the deep base sounds. John. John. >> Given that's exactly what they've done with the spamcans, black 5, A3, >> A4, 8F, schools, castle, duchess and princess (off the top of my head) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > John. Like the extension to railroad range with Patriot, may well have one of those. Cheers, Simon > Like the extension to railroad range with Patriot, may well have one of > those. The way they're going they'll kill the Railroad range in much the way they appear to have pretty much killed Skaledale by over-producing too much product. John. : > I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model manufacturers is : > to produce a 4mm scale (OO-gauge) ready-to-run model of an LNER/BR L1 2-6-4T [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : (9000/67701) itself was built in May 1945 so any LNER interest would : be limited to the post-war period which few people model AFAIK. They were a widely spread class, the London end of the old GE and GN lines, all over the GC lines (will compliment the O4) not to mention some being up in John's neck of the woods too. All I need now is a J6 - oh and some RTR ex LNER Quad-arc stock, but I'll settle for the reintroduction of the BR standard suburban stock... <snip> [Thompson L1 class] > They were a widely spread class, the London end of the old GE and > GN lines, all over the GC lines (will compliment the O4) not to > mention some being up in John's neck of the woods too. Yeah, looking at Yeadon's, Hull Botanic Gardens had a decent sized allocation right the way through the BR steam period. None of them seem to have spent much time in one place at other NER sheds. Apart from 67772 (22/11/48 - 19/11/61), 67750 (09/12/48 - 03/12/61) and 67777 (21/01/50 - 19/11/61) at Darlington, the rest seem to have been moved every few months or so. 67735 spent its entire career at Stratford. Looking at the repair histories, the class seems to have suffered from dodgy tanks. SignatureJades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web. nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address! : I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model manufacturers is : to produce a 4mm scale (OO-gauge) ready-to-run model of an LNER/BR L1 2-6-4T : in 2010. Yipppppppeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :: I've heard a very strong rumour that one of the major model : manufacturers is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : : Yipppppppeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Double Yippee, not only a LNER L1, but allowing for a layout (additional) period of the late green diesel era will allow for a Class 33 plus 4VEPs on delivery - the VEPs being built at York and thus had to be loco hauled to the SR... |
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